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More pedal power chat.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Jun 14 at 01:10
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Definitely, as it can't be used legally on the road in the UK! Motor is many times over the limit.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 19:27
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1200W? That won't disturb the skin of a rice pudding will it?
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I can assure you a 1200 watt vacuum cleaner will easily rip the skin off a rice pud.
Messy business tho
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UK limit for electrically assisted bicycles is 250 watts. So rice puddings need have no fear!
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"UK limit for electrically assisted bicycles is 250 watts. "
And, we were told when we bought one for our daughter, they are limited to 15mph.
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>> And, we were told when we bought one for our daughter, they are limited to
>> 15mph.
Those are limits for equality with pedal cycles; no need for licence, registration insurance. Beyond .25kw/15mph (and without need to use pedals) you're in electric moped/motor bike territory.
Albeit you could argue different limits, such as .3kw/20mph, I think UK is in right ballpark.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 20 Mar 14 at 21:23
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www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/roads-not-a-velodrome-2014040385379
Car driver Emma Bradford said: “Horse riders can be a bit frustrating but at least the horse fraternity knows better than to do the Grand National on the A46.
:)
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“I find cycle race people rather hard to like, except the fat one who’s miles behind all the others, I feel sorry for him and admire his tenacity.”
That made me smile.
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For transport only? Fair enough. Say bye-bye to Sunday drivers, rallies, treasure hunts, "taking the car out for a spin dear", road testing, teaching learners, showing orf in Lambos, touring etc etc. Bit of a pandora's box perhaps?
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MTB tip.
When you are about to attempt a pretty severe and steep off road forest gully descent on your mountain bike and your son says 'race you to the bottom !' This is fine.
It is still fine despite having a couple of airborne sections because you've been doing it all your life.
It's totally fine because he's 14 and you know you can still outride him any day of the week.
What is not fine is forgetting to check that your front wheel quick release lever is properly tightened before launching yourself over the edge of the precipice...
I had no plans to father any more children but I strongly suspect it's now a moot point.
:-(
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Ouch, yaroo! Humph... I do hope you're exaggerating.
Nor is that the sort of information to impart to innocent citizens dozing after Sunday lunch.
There is such a thing as being too bracing you know.
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I don't think that there any words to describe the pain created in that area of a man's body from the sort of accident you had. Women would never be able to take it - look at the fuss they make over something simple like childbirth !
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Not for the first time I seem to recall.....
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No that was quite different. The collateral damage in that instance was the acquisition of a blue/ black map of Australia on my lower back. This latest unplanned event may require splints in a place where they will be at their most inconvenient.
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Are you still talking funny?
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Not especially. However, I'm about to go for a swim and there are some sensitive areas which at least look as if they might have been recently savaged. This may or may not prove to be cause for embarrassment in the men's locker room.
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>> I'm about to go for a swim and there are some sensitive areas
'Once I was swimmin 'cross Turtle Creek
Man, them snappers all round my feet
Sure was hard swimmin 'cross that thing
With both hands on my dingalingaling...
(Chuck Berry's worst ever hit, 'My Dingaling')
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>> Not especially. However, I'm about to go for a swim and there are some sensitive
>> areas which at least look as if they might have been recently savaged. This may
>> or may not prove to be cause for embarrassment in the men's locker room.
I doubt anyone will notice such a small problem.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 6 Apr 14 at 19:39
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Clearly, and it must be said, perfectly understandably, you are making your assumptions based on typical English physiognomy.
The kilt is not a coincidental garment, it is in many cases, the only accommodating option for the archetypal Scots physique.
;-)
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>> What is not fine is forgetting to check that your front wheel quick release lever
>> is properly tightened before launching yourself over the edge of the precipice...
>>
>> I had no plans to father any more children but I strongly suspect it's now
>> a moot point.
>>
>> :-(
>>
So now your son, if he was not familiar before, is now totally accustomed to the sound of the bagpipe skirl. Ahahahahhahahahahahhaha...should have had your man at MB check your nuts before going out to play :-)
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 6 Apr 14 at 22:10
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Been doing a bit of bike shopping this week with Beestling Major. Having grown 10cm in the last six months he's now, at 13, too big for his Isla Beinn 26, which will now pass to his brother. (Anyone want a Beinn 24?)
Anyway, this pitches me into the un-cosy world of adult bikes and what to choose for someone who's the height of some of the adult posters here but still has the physique and strength of a child.
Our cycling is mostly on quiet country roads (as quiet as any are in the Southeast anyway) and woodland bridleways. I do this on that extinct species, the fully-rigid MTB, which seems ideal for the purpose.
But it seems I have to push the boy towards either a 'trail bike' with off-road tyres but a heavy suspension fork, or an 'urban' hybrid with a lighter frame but skinny 700C tyres. My instinct suggests the latter, perhaps with the beefiest tyres that will fit it, but what would the experts here suggest? Budget is up to about £450 for the right machine.
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If you're not mud plugging, a hybrid all the way. 25mm tyres will cope with most surfaces more than adequately. You can always ask the shop to change the wheels to a pair with wider rims which will take a 28mm tyre, assuming the bike doesn't come with those already.
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Well, I'd definitely be going for a rigid or a hardtail, the latter might indeed be easier to find. Forget anything with rear suspension at that budget, it'll be rubbish and from what you describe of your / his riding habits totally unnecessary.
If it's possible or likely that he may get into any MTB activity in the next couple of years then consider a hardtail provided it has lockout forks. Bouncing up hills or along smooth surfaces is a terrible waste of energy.
If you're happy with basic kit you'll do worse than a Halfords Carrera Vulcan, if he wants an entry level MTB or indeed a Carrera Subway if he really is only going to use it in the mildest off road situations. A Subway would take a heavier duty tyre if required.
However, have a wee look at the website for 'discount cycles direct' they often have some really good end of line stuff at good prices. I've used them before and found them very good.
I was drooling over a bike only this morning which after discount would cost me only a bit less than than a new VW Up but I'm not allowed apparently...
They don't understand do they?
:-(
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Re Discount Cycles Direct, they have a Marin Northside Trail on offer at present for £399 ( down from £599 ) damn good bike that. A bit full on for road use but would be ok ( ironically with less aggressive tyres ) fab on the trails though. He'd leave you for dead if it got muddy !
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A starting point might be the Dawes Discovery range:
dawescycles.com/product-category/bikes/2014-bikes-discovery/
Got The Lad a 201 series when he was 15/16 for a similar user requirement to that WdeB sets out. His came with 700C*30 but it looks like current spec is 35. Supplied Kenda tyres are grippy without being tractor jobbies.
Perfectly good on local (chippings surfaced) off road routes like the Brampton Valley Way or round Pitsford Reservoir but a good on road ride too. He did the London to Brighton on it three years ago with me and a team from work.
Only problem we had was a premature failure of the bottom bracket cartridge. Easily replaced with an off the shelf part from Simpsons (my local bike shop in London).
It the Beestling wants something for mud plugging/playing then maybe answer is a second bike. Maybe one of Halford's cheapies either new or from the ample supply of such kit at your local tip.
I found a thoroughly decent nineties non sus nineties Claud Butler with 26*1.75 MTB tyres at tip as a Lad's Uni bike. £60 for the bike, £15worth of cables/brake bits and a day's fettling in last autumns sunshine.
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Not knowing your relative sizes, I should think the first thing to guess at is whether over the next 18m - 2yr he is likely to shoot further up, or is more likely to fill out, both or neither.
If you think he will grow significantly over that time period, perhaps a used bike [lower cost, still high quality] intending it to cover just the next 12 month period might make some sense.
That may allow a more precise decision now.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 21 Apr 14 at 19:55
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Thanks chaps. Experience with the Islas tells me that money spent on quality isn't wasted - the Islas have been fantastic and their lightness and child-friendly design a big factor in building the Beestlings' enthusiasm for two wheels - which says no to Halfords.
Bromp's Discovery looks similar in layout and spec to the Ridgeback and Saracen hybrids the local dealers have suggested. The 301 at 11.4kg looks like a contender - certainly compared with the 14.4kg Giant MTB that was the first thing we were shown.
Humph's Marin looks tasty but that one would be too big for now. He's 171cm, probably headed for 190+ but not for two or three years yet. Whatever we buy now will probably do some time with Beestling Minor, who's two years younger (and destined to be 202cm if the projections are right) so I don't mind paying for something they'll really enjoy.
We all prefer covering ground to real mud-plugging, so hybrid looks like the way to go. (Perhaps I should even consider one to replace my ancient Cannondale.) One last question - is the second dimension of, say, 700c x 35 a section width in millimetres? If so, how wide might I reasonably hope to go?
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The width is in millimetres, how wide you can go depends on frame clearance and obviously the wheel rim. I'd beware of going too wide though, if you're not doing laden touring you just don't need it for firm surfaces and the tyres do weigh a bit more.
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Tend to agree with RR. Even though he's a girly skinny framed, baldy tyred road biker. I'd not mess with the tyres if you're not going to do any proper riding...
;-)
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>> Tend to agree with RR. Even though he's a girly skinny framed, baldy tyred road
>> biker. I'd not mess with the tyres if you're not going to do any proper
>> riding...
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Pah!
I bet you've never even shaved your legs, call yourself a cyclist blah blah blah...
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Certainly not with a razor. Scuffed the odd tuft off on a tree or during an occasional unplanned dismount on scree from time to time but never deliberately.
;-)
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You know, a random thought came to me the other day. It was how verbally creative one can be in a very short space of time given the right stimulus. I find for example that I can come up with three consecutive, different and often obscure swear words in under two seconds when wiping out on the MTB. One coincides with the moment of realisation, the second with the contact with terra firma and the third as the bike catches you up and clouts you.
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>> I find for example that I can come up with three consecutive, different and often obscure swear words in under two seconds when wiping out on the MTB
I can't.
I usually can't even find a single word that sums up my feelings, never mind three. I feel that there must be at least one word, much worse than any word I do know, that would fit the moment. But I can't find it.
I normally resort to using the worst word that I do know, but repeatedly under my breath. Its not very satisfying though.
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Well, I suppose, if you can only muster up the one word, you could at the very least try conjugating it according to the timeline of the event ?
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Frequently I'm swearing because I've just conjugated a bit of myself!
I think that the adding of -ing, -ed, -er, -y and a couple of others covers most of what I need.
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>> The width is in millimetres, how wide you can go depends on frame clearance and
>> obviously the wheel rim. I'd beware of going too wide though, if you're not doing
>> laden touring you just don't need it for firm surfaces and the tyres do weigh
>> a bit more.
700C * 28 is roughly equivalent to the 27*1.25 we toured on thirty years ago. Bigger is nearer a tandem size heavy duty tyre and 25mm or less is 'sporty'.
Much better choice of tyres now though. We rode Michelins which were OK until they wore (quickly) at which point visits form the p*nct*re fairy increased exponentially. Vredesteins with centre ridge came along in late eighties and were a bit of a revelation.
Schwalbe Marathons were the stuff of dreams; the set on my second Brompton punctured once in 4 yrs and 6 months.
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>> Thanks chaps. Experience with the Islas tells me that money spent on quality isn't wasted
>> - the Islas have been fantastic and their lightness and child-friendly design a big factor
>> in building the Beestlings' enthusiasm for two wheels - which says no to Halfords.
Absolutely.
We made mistake at 24" wheel stage of buying to a price and getting 8yo Miss B an Emelle, I think the model name was Panther. Only after several months of ownership and when lifting it onto the car roof rack did I realise it was heavier than my full size Claud Butler Ravanna.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 21 Apr 14 at 22:21
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>> (Anyone want a Beinn 24?)
How much?
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Suggest you ask a mod for my email, WP. I have some pictures and details I can send you before we talk anything as grubby as price.
}:---)
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Why do bike tyres still have tubes whereas car tyres don't?
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It is possible these days to get a tubeless fit on wire wheeled cars, but some serious sealing needs to take place to do it. Spoked wheels though are a bit passé and blooming heavy too. Bit more amenable to DIY though, I rebuilt one spoked wheel on the vintage car.
As recently as 1972, cars were still being made where the steel disc wheel was a tubed fitment. I had one, although I could not describe a Morgan 4/4 as mass market. Led to fun and games at tyre change time as many tyre places insisted a tubeless tyre could not be fitted with a tube.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Thu 24 Apr 14 at 14:55
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>> As recently as 1972, cars were still being made where the steel disc wheel was
>> a tubed fitment. I had one, although I could not describe a Morgan 4/4 as
>> mass market. Led to fun and games at tyre change time as many tyre places
>> insisted a tubeless tyre could not be fitted with a tube.
I put some original non-tubeless rims on the Land Rover, and replaced the worn out tyres on them with some new tubeless tyres I had. Quite common with Landies.
The local chap who does tyre swapping/mending when I need it seemed pretty clued up, and said it was fine of course - but he does see an above average number of punctures with that set up, with no detectable penetration of the tyre, owing to the often rough inner surface of the tubeless tyre.
Sorry, it's a bike thread. My dad used tubular tyres when I was very young and he was still doing some road racing.
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>>
>> Sorry, it's a bike thread. My dad used tubular tyres when I was very young
>> and he was still doing some road racing.
>>
Tubular tyres are not tubeless, though.
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>> Why do bike tyres still have tubes whereas car tyres don't?
Nothing to be gained, at least in the consumer field.
The ordinary spoked wheel is very light and efficient, a design with an airtight rim and bead would inevitably be heavier. The tyre probably would be too.
If you have a puncture replacing the inner tube at the roadside is a quick and pretty easy job with just a handful of simple tools. The most difficult bit on a Brompton is getting the rear wheel off. Quick release jobs on full size bikes are faster but it's still a bit of a puzzle to get the drive sprockets round the derailleur.
Even if you have to patch the tube it's still not taxing.
With a tubeless you'd still have to get the wheel off. I suspect removing/fitting such a tyre by hand would be difficult if not impossible and a roadside patch/plug far from straightforward as well. Could a tubeless tyre be folded to fit in a bag like some of the current cases?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 24 Apr 14 at 14:11
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Tubeless bike tyres do exist. But they don't work with conventional bike wheels because the spoke holes leak. Wheels have to be one-piece alloy or plastic.
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You can buy a kit that allows you to use tubeless tyres with spoked wheels, the holes are sealed to make them airtight. As Brompt says though, the disadvantages outweigh the minimal gain in weight saving.
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Carrying a spare tube is easy. Carrying a spare tyre is a pain ( unless it's one of those girly road tyres of course )
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>> www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2618969/The-incredible-origami-bike-fold-size-umbrella.html
Clever design but 26" wheels mean it's folded size is bigger than the current leading brand of folding bike. No obvious gearing or brakes, probably a 'fixie' so no need for brakes but lack of at least a three speed is going to make it a limited option fro commuters in London never mind Sheffield.
It also looks as though the chain ends up on outside the folded package which will be bad news for others when it's carried folded.
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A chain running that close to the ground will have a life of about a month.
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>> A chain running that close to the ground will have a life of about a
>> month.
Also a problem with current folders that use a dérailleur (eg Dahon/Tern). The tensioner on a Brompton is a little shorter but still needs regular cleaning as does chain.
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My guess is that it would be reluctant, like pedalling slightly uphill all the time. Charmingly ingenious of course, sure to cost a king's ransom, almost certainly very delicate and easily damaged, highly unlikely from the look of it to run freely like a simple lightweight bicycle.
There will be quite a few lying unused in rich gizmo-enthusiasts' garages.
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There's a good reason why normal wheels have the bearing in the centre. This design will only work if the bike is spotlessly clean and any dirt on the rim will cause problems.
As others have said, the chain will also suffer from dirt and it looks nearer to the ground than any folder or recumbent I can visualise.
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Quite an interesting article about allowing cyclists to act differently to other road users at road signs, and why in fact it can be a good idea. At least it's not written in inflammatory language, and attempts to further, or open, debate.
It's American, and although it talks about Idaho, because the behaviour described has been legal for some time there, apparently this is already the case in other places, including Paris, so not entirely US centric in concept.
Executive summary - let cyclists treat a "stop" as a "yield", and go through red lights with caution, and the stats (they've gathered of course) show it's safer. Quite an interesting little video in the middle too.
www.vox.com/2014/5/9/5691098/why-cyclists-should-be-able-to-roll-through-stop-signs-and-ride
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More or less every weekend finds us out somewhere off road on our mountain bikes. Weather rarely prevents this. "No such thing as the wrong weather, just the wrong clothes" is the basic philosophy.
However, peering out of the window this morning at the incessant driving rain, the effort required to initiate the process is fairly appreciable.
What time does the Grand Prix coverage start again?
;-)
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Beautiful sunny morning here in the East.
Just though I'd let you know.
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Ach, we'll likely go anyway, 'she' has has filled the soup flasks already so it's kind of a given thing.
Be alright once we're under the forest canopy....
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Mmm, dry and cloudy here,and i'm what, 20 miles north of you ?
I'll expect it in another 10 minutes !
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A bit damp and miserable down here.
There's a mini-triathlon going on locally for people who don't seem to be too serious about it, some are even riding flat handlebar contraptions round the course. In my day all racing cyclists were of lean build, but at least fifty percent of the riders I saw out today could be fairly described as real porkers.
Proof that exercise on it's own is useless unless you can control your desire to visit the fridge too often.
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>flat handlebar contraptions....
At least those of us who ride 'real men's' bikes tend only to occasionally mildly inconvenience fat people waddling off the effects of their Sunday lunches in a forest, whereas the Lycra clad, wire clothes maid riding brigade get in everyone's way !
;-)
Right then, bikes stacked on car....
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Real men have their nose on the front tyre and their backside in the air. Anything else is a lady's bike.
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All today's projects, about 30 miles North of Humpy, involved being outside. Still one caravan window to polish up with T Cut. I can do it in the workshop but that leaves a hole in the van. Some pruning needed and I was going to change the oil and filter on the Note.
Just started raining again so I resorted to shredding a load of paperwork and ringing my cousin in Huntingdon for a chat. He's just been diagnosed with Parkys but he's in good spirit !
Got ickle 9yr old Grand-daughter coming to stay tonight so that'll brighten the day up no end !
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Well, mission accomplished. The sun managed to keep the rain at bay for exactly the 3 hours required thankfully.
Great run in the end. Approximately 28 miles of forest trails punctuated by a few impromptu technical bits. ( aka unfeasably steep for an auld git ) Very gloopy in places, as was to be expected, but generally not bad.
The bikes and the car ( inside and out ) do look a bit like they have been in the battle of the Somme though.
Swim shortly to attempt to untangle tortured muscles I think.
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Commenting on a thread on the DT website, I had to check up on the legalities of bicycle bells.
Seems they're a mandatory fitment on new bicycles, but not second-hand; furthermore there is no legal requirement to have one fitted once the bicycle leaves the shop.
When I'm in Holland, I've noticed that use of bells is common-place, which is very welcome when you've a tendency, out of habit, to look the wrong way when crossing the road!
I'd welcome comments from our resident pedal-pushers as to whether bells should be mandatory in the whole of the UK, and their use encouraged in order to improve safety; for some odd reason they are a legal requirement in Northern Ireland but not the rest of Britain.
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I've got them on our bikes. I use them a lot on shared path/cycle lanes, particularly when approaching a number of people walking side-by-side. They know instantly what's behind them. I do sometimes get abuse of the type 'you shouldn't be riding that here', invariably when they're within a few feet of a cycle symbol on the ground!
My front brake screeches alarmingly when applied hard, serves as a back-up to those that ignore the bell. I know I could stop it by adjusting the 'toe' of the blocks, but it serves a purpose.
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' I do sometimes get abuse of the type 'you shouldn't be riding that here'
:-) I got a lot of that this morning, cycling down a bridleway that is also a council designated cycle route and signposted as such. Nearly came off the bike as a result of a small ankle snapping dog that the owner couldn't control, even when he finally tried to.. No, I shouldn't have been cycling on the path and none of my ******* reason why he should put his dog on the lead he was carrying
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"I'd welcome comments from our resident pedal-pushers as to whether bells should be mandatory in the whole of the UK, and their use encouraged in order to improve safety."
Yes - I think they SHOULD be mandatory. My wife and I have a bell on our bikes and find them extremely handy as cyclists share a path with pedestrians on our route into town. It's normal for pedestrians to wander over onto the cycling side so a ring on the bell warns of your approach. Timing is critical, though; too early, and they won't hear you (many have headphones plugged in); too late and they'll either jump into your path or accuse you of frightening them to death and abuse you!
However, it's nice that most say that it's a pleasant change to hear a bell and get some warning. If someone has to move out of the way, I always thank them and bid them good-day.
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I can't think of a single valid reason for not having one.
As a driver, I'm pretty neutral, it would have to be very loud and very close to be audible, and you should be aware of a cyclist that close
As a walker I get teed off, particularly on canal towpaths, by cyclists rolling along silently behind you who apparently think you should look behind you every thirty second to see if you should move out of their way. Then again seeing as they often have neither the wit nor manners to shout 'excuse me' or similar, then they probably wouldn't understand the function of a bell anyway
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Mine was used continuously when commuting in London on the Brompton. Just a single 'ting' says there's a bike around, repeated more for urgency and augmented by voice if need be. The MTB also has one as it sees a fair bit of use on shared paths etc.
Don't have one on the old Dawes tourer. There's far less need for it on open road, mounting space is at a premium and variety of hand positions on drop bars mean it won't fall easily to hand when needed.
Prefer the old fashioned sort with a a domed bell that give a proper ring to the modern 'single ting' type. The B comes with latter as it's integrated with the changer for the two speed dérailleur part of the six gear set up.
No enthusiasm for making them mandatory though - voice, whistle, bulb hooter (or the mighty Air Zound for those wanting the nuclear option ) are equally valid options.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 26 May 14 at 17:50
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I find a polite "excuse me" backed up with a smile the least confrontational and concluded by a "thank you" when passing. Bells seem to bring the worst out in pedestrians even when used appropriately and often receive a sarcastic reaction.
One location we use regularly is advertised by the Foresty Commission as a dedicated mountain biking and trail riding venue but it is still ( and fair enough that it is ) open to walkers and horse riders. The cyclists and horse riders seem to rub along well enough but the walkers tend to spread themselves line abreast blocking the entire width of the path to anyone approaching from behind them. Even when advised of faster traffic by use of a bell or a call they then usually mill around in general confusion huffing and puffing and causing the rider to have to stop anyway.
If only they would have the common sense to occupy a half width of the paths then there would be no problem but that simple courtesy to others doesn't seem to occur to them.
Then you get the dog walkers ( by the way I often ride with my dog running loose beside me so I'm not unsympathetic ) the inexperienced ones though will wait until you are about to pass them on a bike and then call their dogs to them usually encouraging the animal, which was quite happy sniffing around in the verge, to run straight in front of the bike.
Then the ones with small children, you can pass more than 20 feet away from a child at little more than walking pace but still be accused of being a maniac if you're on a bike.
I guess some people just hate cyclists by default. Some might deserve it but not all by any stretch.
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I don't have a bell on either trike (yes, I really do ride and drive three wheelers). However, as I can't now shout, I will have to fit them with an audible means of approach.
Probably these:
www.evanscycles.com/products/delta/airzound-2-horn-ec009169
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All new bikes come with bells. You can get one from Poundland for £1.
Funny thing is, even on cycle paths, pedestrians don't expect bikes coming behind them!
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Might be selective perception, but I really don't think it is, but in countries which are more bike friendly such as Germany and Holland, people tend not to walk on bike sections of paths or vice versa. Here though...
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>>You can get one from Poundland for £1.
How much are they?
;>)
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>> All new bikes come with bells. You can get one from Poundland for £1.
A bike for a £1
Wow!! That's cheap. And the bonus of it also having a bell too.
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>> Commenting on a thread on the DT website, I had to check up on the
>> legalities of bicycle bells.
>>
>> Seems they're a mandatory fitment on new bicycles, but not second-hand;
>>
Not quite.
Very few serious bikes are sold new with a bell or any sort of reflector (Useless junk in the case of the latter) fitted. The shops get round this because the varying type of pedal and shoe systems available now mean that racing bikes, for example, are sold without pedals as standard fitment because they might not suit the cleats a buyer uses or prefers. The bike is therefore not rideable at point of sale and is not classed as a complete machine and so exempt from that law.
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The reason no good bikes are ever sold new with pedals is due to the fact the cycle industry accepted a really stupid bit of legislation requiring all new bikes sold with pedals to have reflectors visible from both ahead and behind.
With cleats, the pedal is a very minimalist device and a reflector wouldn't last 5 minutes. And strictly speaking, my recumbent trike is illegal after dark, even if I did fit pedal reflectors as there is no view of the pedal from behind.
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I might be miles out here, I'm not cyclist haven't riden since childhood, but equally not bothered by them and I rarely see them in my neck of the woods. But why is trying to make bikes more visable a bad thing?
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It's not, but there are a host of ways of making a cycle more visible and to legislate a system that is both hard to get and fragile is not the way to do it.
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>> I might be miles out here, I'm not cyclist haven't riden since childhood, but equally
>> not bothered by them and I rarely see them in my neck of the woods.
>> But why is trying to make bikes more visable a bad thing?
The bad bit is doing it by legislation. Even if the law is workable at inception (and pedal reflectors arguably were in days of platforms pedals with or w/o toe clips) it tends to be overtaken by technology. Minimalist cleated pedals are one example. The failure of bicycle lighting law to keep up with LED technology was another.
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>The bad bit is doing it by legislation.
Absolutely. But we seem to want legislation for everything these days. We seem to wish to govern all interaction with the law.
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>> >> I might be miles out here, I'm not cyclist haven't riden since childhood, but
>> equally
>> >> not bothered by them and I rarely see them in my neck of the
>> woods.
>> >> But why is trying to make bikes more visable a bad thing?
>>
>> The bad bit is doing it by legislation.
I'm surprised you say that. What should be done and should the gov have no/lots of input into the matter?
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>> I'm surprised you say that. What should be done and should the gov have no/lots
>> of input into the matter?
Legislation can be a crude instrument. Simple stuff like a bike having a means of braking is one thing. Specifying how that is achieved is another - bike brakes stuck in era of cables and rubber blocks would have been a bad thing. That didn't happen but rules for lighting were framed in era of batteries and tungsten filament bulbs long after LED came on scene.
Government input best framed as high level requirements, perhaps with capacity to prohibit 'dangerous' developments, but mostly focussed on education and encouragement.
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So something like, should be clearly visible at night, by a means available on the bike? I'm not a legal expert.
I have come across rare cyclists in my neck of the woods, 3 am fast country lanes. All black clothing no lights, just a small reflector on the back. Car infront alerted me to it by swerving around them. The lane was pitch black nearest town was miles away, how they they thought that was ok was completely beyond me. I still remember it now.
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>> So something like, should be clearly visible at night, by a means available on the
>> bike? I'm not a legal expert.
>>
>> I have come across rare cyclists in my neck of the woods, 3 am fast
>> country lanes. All black clothing no lights, just a small reflector on the back. Car
>> infront alerted me to it by swerving around them. The lane was pitch black nearest
>> town was miles away, how they they thought that was ok was completely beyond me.
>> I still remember it now.
I'm saying any legislation about safety, and this is not limited to bikes, needs to be drafted in a way that can accommodate technological change. So bike/rider should be clearly visible at night; means of visibility should be drafted in terms of tungsten filament bulbs or current retro-reflective technology.
And, of course, no matter what the law it's only as good as enforcement. There's visibility legislation for farm tractors/trailers but it doesn't stop them operating in stealth mode at night.
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That's what I mean looking at the end outcome, that they are visable rather than saying xyz technology is required.
Not sure about the tractors at night, I drive a lot at night and in the small hours very rare to see tractors. They are about but rare.
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>>
>> I'm saying any legislation about safety, and this is not limited to bikes, needs to
>> be drafted in a way that can accommodate technological change. So bike/rider should be clearly
>> visible at night; means of visibility should be drafted in terms of tungsten filament bulbs
>> or current retro-reflective technology.
>>
>> And, of course, no matter what the law it's only as good as enforcement. There's
>> visibility legislation for farm tractors/trailers but it doesn't stop them operating in stealth mode at
>> night.
>>
Most of the tractors I see at night round these parts tend to be over-lit, if anything, having left their rear working lights on whilst on the road; they're mostly contractors on silage harvesting, moving from farm to farm. Admittedly it does make them easier to see on main roads when approaching from behind, but it doesn't help with seeing past them.
As for enforcement; one of my pet peeves is the reluctance of the police to clamp down on car drivers with faulty lights, something for which HGV's will inevitably get a fine if VOSA should pull them.
Bromp; given the vast improvements in recent years of both the quality of bicycle lighting and the longevity of the batteries, do you think it's reasonable to legislate that all bicycles should be fitted with lights?
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>> Bromp; given the vast improvements in recent years of both the quality of bicycle lighting
>> and the longevity of the batteries, do you think it's reasonable to legislate that all
>> bicycles should be fitted with lights?
What would be the gain from such legislation?
Bikes are already required to be lit at night but all too often are not.
As well as quality modern lights, not burdened with D cell batteries, weigh very little. But weight is still a penalty sports riders don't want in daytime. They're also a magnet for the light fingered so are taken off the bike when parked. Would the law make it an offence to ride in broad daylight without them?
There's a huge variety available and LED technology is evolving. Legislating into a cul de sac, as was case with previous rules written around sixties technology tungsten filament, is to nobodies advantage.
Let's enforce the laws we have rather than make new and unworkable ones.
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Let's enforce the laws we have rather than make new and unworkable ones.
Far too sensible for politicians who specialise in knee jerk and bandwagon laws!
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>> Let's enforce the laws we have rather than make new and unworkable ones.
>>
Thanks. That was the answer I expected, and in fact I agree with you.
I do wish, though, that some of the "sportier" cyclists would at least make an effort if they're going to be about after dusk; as you well know there are a variety of very small LED lights which weigh next to nothing, last almost forever and affix by a velcro band. Surely carrying such in a bum-bag or suchlike would not affect aspiring Bradley Wiggins' performance too much? I find that these types, by and large, are the worst offenders when it comes to being unlit in poor visibility conditions.
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>> Bromp; given the vast improvements in recent years of both the quality of bicycle lighting and the longevity of the batteries, do you think it's reasonable to legislate that all bicycles should be fitted with lights?
>>
At least ninety percent of cyclists never venture out at night. Up to a couple of years ago I was cycling most of my life and the last time I rode out after dark was in the early seventies.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 27 May 14 at 11:15
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>> At least ninety percent of cyclists never venture out at night. Up to a couple
>> of years ago I was cycling most of my life and the last time I
>> rode out after dark was in the early seventies.
>
I had you and other roadies in mind when I posted earlier.
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staff at Transport for London deal with a cyclist who deploys a strange array of tools to defend his position on the road.
Apparently he's kitted out with seven cameras!
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The so called 'Traffic Droid'?
Even I think he's mad as a box of frogs.
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>> The so called 'Traffic Droid'?
>>
>> Even I think he's mad as a box of frogs.
>>
This the guy ?
metro.co.uk/2014/05/26/drivers-beware-its-traffic-droid-4740554/
Or see the action ?
Traffic Droid features in The Complainers on Channel 4 on Tuesday night.
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"All this fighting crime has also come at a cost to his personal life. ‘It hasn’t left much time to find a girlfriend,’ he added."
Yes, that's right Lewis, its lack of time which has stood in the way. Your obsessive and slightly weird approach to life, odd behaviour and strange dress code have nothing to do with it.
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>> Perhaps he should fit a bell?
I've ridden a few dodgy old bikes in my time.
Most had bells, but one had such noisy brakes that they drowned the bell, and made pedestrians leap for safety. Much better than a bell really.
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WTF ????? - BobbyG
