***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 11 *****
Thunderbolts, Lightning, floods....and similar.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 13 Feb 14 at 01:30
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When looking at buying houses, anything below the road level - wherever it is- is an automatic no-no for us.
"Water flows downhill" is a well known fact of life which some people seem unable to factor into reality...
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"Apparently the biggest expense would be transporting the dredged silt out to sea for dumping.
Why not use it to raise the river-banks and grass it over?"
Apparently (I have read somewhere) it is because the stuff dredged from rivers is now classified as "Hazardous Waste" (by the EU) and can no longer be used to raise river banks or spread on land.
I'll try to find a source for that info.
It doesn't seem to apply to the Dutch and its a bit ironic since if a river floods because it has not been dredged because you can't get rid of the silt easily then the silt will be spread ........on the banks and surrounding area. Along with a lot of stuff from sewers which overflow.
Unintended consequences?
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Wonder if this is weather related?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-26143100
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 11 Feb 14 at 17:58
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From Bromp's post in Weather Vol. 9.
>Which is what I thought. It's primarily a flood relief scheme that also creates a bird and wildlife
>habitat and public amenity.
Primarily a flood relief scheme? Did you actually browse the content of that site?
The top of the homepage states:
"A wild, wetland landscape for the future
Rising sea levels are putting the squeeze on wildlife along our coast, but in Somerset, WWT and the Environment Agency are creating one of the UK’s largest new wetland reserves."
And their only justification of it being a flood defence is based on the premise that "Recent guidelines predict a rise of one metre (in sea levels) in the next 100 years".
>A very different thing from story being told to press by politico and others with axes to grind,..
No, it's exactly how it's detractors describe it.
I came across this link earlier today:
www.insidetheenvironmentagency.co.uk/
The contents, allegedly by EA insiders, portray a seriously dysfunctional outfit.
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>> From Bromp's post in Weather Vol. 9.
Irrespective of the charitable/promotional stuff, which bit of it's a by product of flood relief is so difficult to understand?
I'm not saying detractors are wholly unjustified but any organisation under threat of large scale reorganisation/redundancy is going to have disaffected staff.
Been there several times and got the collection of T-shirts.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 11 Feb 14 at 20:18
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In my time with COMAH, EA were a pain to deal with. In contrast the Scottish agency (SEPA) were more flexible, and not defensive. I've no idea why, but EA were probably under more pressure, with ever-more work to do, including the tasks of the National Rivers Authority which they were lumbered with as part of the festering privatisation schemes. NRA therefore became a small cog in a big wheel. And now we see the consequences when crude Treasury rules apply.
Last edited by: NIL on Tue 11 Feb 14 at 20:29
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Crude Treasury rules?
The have 11,200 staff and a budget of £1.2B, That's about 25% of the entire US EPA budget, over twice the Canadian budget and nearly 50% more than the combined budgets of France, Denmark, Germany, Sweden and Austria.
Why is that?
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Are you comparing like organisations? Do the EPA in the US have a duty to manage drainage issues, extending to employing a work force to plan and carry the task into effect? In the USA, the implementation of tasks relating to rivers is at State level. Emergency response is frequently a military function. Next!
Last edited by: NIL on Tue 11 Feb 14 at 21:14
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>Are you comparing like organisations?
>Do the EPA in the US have a duty to manage drainage issues, extending to employing a work force to plan and
>carry the task into effect? In the USA, the implementation of tasks relating to rivers is at State level.
Yes they do. Drainage issues on the scale we have seen here are EPA responsibility.
>Emergency response is frequently a military function.
The EA do not provide an emergency response. From their website:
"We’re not an emergency service, but as a Category One responder under the Civil Contingencies Act we play an important role in preparing for and supporting the response to emergencies in England."
>Next!
Yeah. Care to address the other examples I mentioned?
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"Drainage issues on the scale we have seen here are EPA responsibility". You perhaps conflate enforcement and policy, with delivery.
The US Army Corps of Engineers carry out the task of maintaining rivers and flood control measures. EPA are more the policy/enforcement arm. The Canadians have 6800 in their Environment Canada set-up, mostly for the provision of scientific and policy back-up, to agencies who carry out the work physically. In the UK the EA have a combined role: which they struggle with, from political stance (internal and external) and resource issues. Unlike a separate rivers authority, they are unlikely to be transparent about the merits of their flood control decisions.
Comparing differing jurisdictions expenditures (your starting point) is futile and superficial. I'm not going to waste effort on it.
The issues here in the UK are the paucity of leadership and resources in the face of severe challenges. The Government have gambled on reducing expenditure, when what might have been wiser is increasing it!
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>The US Army Corps of Engineers carry out the task of maintaining rivers and flood
>control measures. EPA are more the policy/enforcement arm.
The Corps of Engineers do indeed provide river and flood maintenance. But since the EA apparently spent only £20M of it's £1.2B budget on river maintenance in 2013 your point is moot.
>The Canadians have 6800 in their Environment Canada set-up, mostly for the provision of
>scientific and policy back-up, to agencies who carry out the work physically.
Again, the EA only spent £219M on capital projects in 2013 so if we are generous they spent £961M with 11,200 staff doing what the Canadians can do for £520M with 6,800 staff. The Canucks also manage to run a meteorological service within that budget.
>Comparing differing jurisdictions expenditures (your starting point) is futile and superficial.
Actually, it wasn't my starting point. My post was a reply to your assertion that the current situation is due to "crude Treasury rules". I provided a comparison of spending and asked "Why is that?". Putting aside your earlier flippant reply, comparing expenditures is only "futile and superficial" if you can't be bothered to ensure that you are getting best bang for the buck.
>I'm not going to waste effort on it.
I don't recall anyone asking you to.
>The issues here in the UK are the paucity of leadership and resources in the face of severe
>challenges.
Something we agree on. I also agree that the NRA should be re-instated as a separate agency.
>The Government have gambled on reducing expenditure, when what might have been wiser is
>increasing it!
Why do some people think that the answer to every problem is to throw more taxpayers money at it?
From the link I posted yesterday and you kindly re-posted this morning:
"In 2012-13 the EA spent £1207.4m compared to £1166.6m the year before. It ended the year with £95.8m cash in the bank."
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I'm no admirer of the EA. And it seems clear that they are woeful as regards priorities. The only real issue I would have (agreeing on much else in your latest) is that Treasury rules on expenditure are indeed crude. They require cuts, come what may. This misses the fundamental problem that over-large organisations of this type have. Skewed to "policy", distant from getting things done, by design, and contemptuous of the former NRA front line. If only there could be a system that required good performance, all the way upwards!
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>Irrespective of the charitable/promotional stuff, which bit of it's a by product of flood relief
>is so difficult to understand?
You tell me, because you don't seem, or want, to accept the blindingly obvious.
If you actually read it, they make no attempt to claim that it is a by-product of flood relief. It is first and foremost a wildlife project that may, just may, provide better flood protection if sea levels rise by 1m in the next 100 years.
Now, there's nothing wrong with wildlife projects but trying to spin this as primarily flood relief is utter carp.
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At least there's been no mention of a national water grid in recent years. The one we were in dire need of not too many years back.
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Speaking this am to BIL who is a District Councillor in '''''''shire and a former town mayor. (In a former life a senior engineer at a major international company)
His comment dealing with the EA was that they were hopelessly bureaucratic and were more interested in protecting voles than clearing blocked ditches .. and then they would clear one small section and leave the rest blocked..
There were other comments which referred to the organisation's wish to protect its backside in all cases , hindered by their inability to find it.
(translated from the original Anglo Saxon)
Last edited by: madf on Tue 11 Feb 14 at 21:00
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>> If you actually read it, they make no attempt to claim that it is a
>> by-product of flood relief. It is first and foremost a wildlife project that may, just
>> may, provide better flood protection if sea levels rise by 1m in the next 100
>> years.
It's a flood relief scheme. No gov funded body subject to supervision of NAO etc is going to go so far off piste as to pay for things way outside it's remit.
And is 1m in 100yrs that far off?
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>It's a flood relief scheme.
And exactly how do they describe it on their home page?
>And is 1m in 100yrs that far off?
Who knows? They don't say where they got the data and seem to think that everyone will be dumb enough to accept what they say without question.
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>> It's a flood relief scheme. No gov funded body subject to supervision of NAO etc
>> is going to go so far off piste as to pay for things way outside
>> it's remit.
I'm sure they are capable of throwing in the flood relief bit to tick the box whatever they spent the bulk of the money on. Not saying they did, but even I've done that sort of thing, and I'm honest:)
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>> It's a flood relief scheme. No gov funded body subject to supervision of NAO etc is going
>>to go so far off piste as to pay for things way outside it's remit.
You're missing the point. Under Barbara darling, its remit was to create a bird-friendly environment. It did. It therefore spent its cash exactly as it was required to.
Its remit was *not* to dredge rivers as that interfered with the birds.
When the Minister brings in a new policy, the department has to implement it. This was now 14 years ago and anybody working there now has long-since forgotten the original purpose of the drainage ditches. Difficult to blame the current Government really - unless people have been hopping up and down for years demanding dredging and it's been ignored. Quite possible; anybody know?
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>> You're missing the point. Under Barbara darling, its remit was to create a bird-friendly environment.
>> It did. It therefore spent its cash exactly as it was required to.
>>
>> Its remit was *not* to dredge rivers as that interfered with the birds.
That's my take on it.
A bit difficult to blame the current lot, other than perhaps not having their eye closely enough on the ball. In fairness though, there's been a fair few other things that needed correcting first.
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">> Its remit was *not* to dredge rivers as that interfered with the birds.
That's my take on it. "
The scientifically naive often shout with loud voices (e.g. as in the GM debate) and will be listened to by the government especially when, by enacting their wishes, they spot an opportunity to save money - as in the 'care in the community' fiasco.
However, I can't believe that birdie-lovers alone have caused the government to realise an opportunity to save money. A few years ago, when summers were dry and water was in short supply, it was said that we were draining the land too fast and insufficient was permeating through to become groundwater. The problem was made worse because of higher demands for water from an expanding population which in turn wanted to build more houses and cover more of the ground with hard stuff. Now THAT is possibly a good reason for reducing the dredging and , at one fell swoop, save money as well.
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Trying to combine protection of the environment (EA core role) and drainage issues (NRA core role) is asking for conflict. If the two major roles were separate, then conflicts would have to be dealt with at a higher level. That is the role of Government.
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How long before there's going to be some drastic changes to the EA?
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Well it will be something that parties will latch onto for the next election I would think. So all those in areas that are flooded now (or prone to flooding) might choose a party on that alone.
I wonder if there's more reaction from Westminster and the leaders now it is affecting he Thames Valley?
And no doubt we will have a drought down south in the summer. Wrong sort of rain?
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On a lighter note...Better start filling the sandbags now...........zoom in on the map !
jaysimons.deviantart.com/art/British-Isles-in-2100-315945336
HO
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The Opposition is giving the government a fairly easy time over the weather.
Quite right of course. This no time to be rocking the boat. People could fall in and come to harm.
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However I try to forget I read this exchange at 3.15am I can’t and it doesn’t sit well with me to allow it to go unchallenged. (CG Volume 9)
>>
He originally suggested that we we would have had some kind of TV charity event or pop concert by now to raise money<<
Surely the phrase ‘would have had’ suggests VX was making a comparison and not a suggestion, unless of course you prefer to read it to suit? Pedant alert!
>> Don't worry about my conscience I very much doubt that any affected farmer in Somerset needs charity and indeed as far as I none of them is asking for any<<
Very easy to say from the comfort of your armchair.
Have you any facts to back that up? Have you talked to any affected farmers?
My real gripe about this is you seem to manage to make charity sound like a dirty word CG.
It isn’t, but there is a vast difference between compassionate help, given without it being asked for and charitable donations which usually are.
In my experience the people who most need help are always too proud to ask for it.
Also in my experience those who give it, or offer it, without having to be asked are the most caring and compassionate in the world.
>>. There are a lot of people both in this country and abroad who need financial assistance far more than farmers and those are the charities that I will I will continue to support<<
Well done, but does it have to be an ‘either/or’?
Does it have to be a point to argue about just because those of us who are from a farming background and indeed, still have relatives who farm choose to help?
>>
I note you are curiously silent on my rebuttal of your original claim that "he didn't say that".<<
I do apologise for not replying straight away but my days start a lot earlier than yours, it also means they end earlier too.
In future I will try to do better….
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 07:23
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"There are a lot of people both in this country and abroad who need financial assistance far more than farmers and those are the charities that I will I will continue to support"
"Well done, but does it have to be an ‘either/or’? "
Well Yes it does really. I don't and nor does anyone have unlimited resources for charitable giving. I like to donate to charities which help those with very little and who have no one else to turn and for whom my donation might make a real difference. Farmers in Somerset do not fall into this category.
My original point, which you have completely ignored in favour of addressing something you think I believe still remains unanswered.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 09:49
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With respect CG, I suggest you ignored my perfectly adequate answer to your original point.
In case you missed it.....
>>Surely the phrase ‘would have had’ suggests VX was making a comparison and not a suggestion, unless of course you prefer to read it to suit? Pedant alert!<<
Just as you ignored this question
>>Does it have to be a point to argue about just because those of us who are from a farming background and indeed, still have relatives who farm choose to help?<<
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 11:01
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Look Pat I'll state my views once more for the sake of clarity and then give up.
1. Rising money for flood defence infrastructure/emergency services should come from government and taxation and not charity events.
2. As far as I can see there is no need for any sort of national charity appeal for those affected by floods. This is not a third world country and most of those affected should have insurance for damaged property. I must admit to not having a lot of sympathy with those who chose not to insure.
I'm sure there will be some people suffering hardship - the elderly poor etc but there are already lots of charities who can help locally.
3. Businesses that have known risks that could affect their businesses should have contingency plans. Farmers farming land at risk of flooding should have plans for movement of livestock to neighbouring farms etc. If they don't they shouldn't be in business.
4. Of course people acting in a neighbourly way and helping others in times of distress is to be commended and is hopefully what anyone would do.
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That's all very well for you to say CG but i am in dire straights here.
I am as we speak surrounded by deep water and as far as help and charity goes
I could do with anything government or charity can offer.
My drinks bill is huge and I am only half way through the cruise.
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My heart bleeds for you Zero. Such a predicament. It will be really upsetting if your boat encounters those Atlantic storms and massive waves. :-)
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You divil, Z, what ship are you on? :-)
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>> You divil, Z, what ship are you on? :-)
>>
Noah's Ark.
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>My drinks bill is huge and I am only half way through the cruise.
Drink water.
I'm on antibios at the moment so you'll be in good company.
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>>I'm on antibios at the moment so you'll be in good company.
Generally only metronidazole (Flagyl) reacts with alcohol so feel free to indulge...
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>Generally only metronidazole (Flagyl) reacts with alcohol so feel free to indulge...
3rd day of Erythromycin (I'm allergic) and Metronidazole 200mg.
Can I have a weak G&T please Doc?
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Sure... if you want the G&T to become D&V ;-)
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>Sure... if you want the G&T to become D&V ;-)
Ah!
Not to worry, I've just read the leaflet again. I'll stick with the possible fits, convulsions, hallucinations and double-vision.
Hopefully I'll hallucinate a double.
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>> This is not a third world country and most of those affected should have insurance for damaged property.
Those who have previously been flooded, either cannot get insurance because it is too expensive or insurers won't touch them with a barge pole.
Whilst this isn't a 3rd world country, there are people out there in dire need of help.
Those who have the ability to raise money (eg, celebs, music entertainers, etc) should be helping rather than leaving it to the tax payer as per usual. But just because it's the UK they can't be bothered.
>> I must admit to not having a lot of sympathy with those who chose not to insure.
And that just about sums it up. I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 12:52
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>> I must admit to not having a lot of sympathy with those who chose
>> not to insure.
Some cannot afford to insure
>> And that just about sums it up. I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up.
>>
It looks like it.
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>> Some cannot afford to insure
And those that can probably haven't got reserve amounts of cash to hand while waiting for payouts. Some probably haven't even been paid for their last claim yet.
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"And that just about sums it up. I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up."
I take it from that statement that you would be happy to donate to a fund to meet in full the losses full of those who chose not to take out insurance where it is was available and now find their homes flooded. Personally I wouldn't
There are a surprising number of people who chose not to insure - around 30% of all householders. I am fully aware that for some there is no insurance available at a reasonable cost and for them something must be done by the government to assist but I have little sympathy for those who could afford such insurance but simply chose to spend their money elsewhere. I fail to see why they should be put in the same position as their more prudent neighbours.
The situation regarding unaffordable insurance should change next year with the introduction of the new "Flood Re"' scheme which will put a cap on the cost of flood insurance and make it affordable to most householders. Of course this will come at a cost and the cost will be met by a compulsory levy on all policyholders. Your premiums will be going up.
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>> I take it from that statement that you would be happy to donate to a
>> fund to meet in full the losses full of those who chose not to take
>> out insurance where it is was available and now find their homes flooded.
It's not a case whether I would be happy to donate. I am trying to point out that very little is being done to help those who have been washed out of their homes, and quite possibly for a long time. And when they do eventually return they find what little they did have left that didn't get ruined in the flood has probably been looted anyway.
Bottom line is charity begins at home. Unfortunately the powers that be would sooner give the money away to other Countries before considering their own.
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Lord Smith retires this year.
I would expect a tree huggers culling...
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To WP: I don't know, but possibly soon, by the rumblings from within about conflict, waste and underfunding of river maintenance. insidetheenvironmentagency.co.uk
Last edited by: NIL on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 10:36
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Got home this morning to find the capping tile (Or whatever they call the thing that covers the hole where the chimney used to be) in smthereens on the drive just inches from Mrs O'Reliant's Corsa. Looking up another tile has dislodged and is sitting on the roof grinning down at us, our local builder obviously can't do anything till tomorrow.
One car now on next doors drive, the other parked on the road.
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One small clarification of definitions might help in future planning.
The over- or miss- used expression "flood plain" should be replaced by one of three categories with suitable names:
1) Low-lying land used for development which the state is pledged to defend from flooding
2) Low-lying land which may flood but which insurance companies have agreed nonetheless to cover
3) Low-lying land which is designed to flood in order to absorb water and act as a buffer - proper flood plains, in fact.
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In Northampton it's now blowing a hooley and lashing down. Slates rattling ominously, pressure dropping like a stone.
Looks set in for a few hours.
Just over three hours ago it was calm enough to bike into the town to collect Berlingo from bodyshop. Glad I went while I had chance - even bus/foot looks a poorr option right now.
How is it in your neck of the woods?
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Slightly moist and rather blustery here in t'Dales. A few heavy showers, but nothing to deter me from dog walking.
Just finishing tax return, then settle down to watch 'Bad day at Black Rock', Then gym. Then beer. Overall a pleasant day off work, especially the blueberry pancakes with maple syrup for bfast.
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Looks pretty unpleasant out of the window in Bath. The Paddington-Reading signalling problems only meant a delay of 18 mins to this morning's commute (from Reading), but it might be worse going back.
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Getting seriously worrying here now, I've never experienced winds like this before. If we get away without further damage we'll be lucky.
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S'not too bad here in mid-Cornwall (inland) bin dry now for more-than a phew! hours.
Strrrong gusts - a-mazes me how the trees stand up tuit but, I suppose they've had 100's of 1,000,000's of years to learn howl to tuff it out, like.
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Darkest Staffordshire expecting 60mph winds at 6pm on.
Windy wet and cold just now: rather like most of 2014 so far...
If we flood, I expect to see the remains of London floating past my front door...
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>> pressure dropping like a stone. <<
...and if anyone tells you that doesn't make arthritis worse you can tell them from me, they're lying.
Blowing a hooley here too and raining sideways.
Pat
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>> >> pressure dropping like a stone. <<
>>
>> ...and if anyone tells you that doesn't make arthritis worse you can tell them from
>> me, they're lying.
>>
>> Blowing a hooley here too and raining sideways.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
What's arthritis? :-)
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Squall has now hit central east anglia - bad enough, but I think the west has already taken the sting out of it.
We've booked seats for the cinema this evening ………….. I hope we can park nearby; I don't fancy a long walk in this!
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Hissing down here in West Sussex......not so windy as elsewhere it appears......
Never mind, off to Qatar next week , temperatures predicted somewhere in the region of 27 C
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More DM photos - glad I'm not in East Lyng: tinyurl.com/ljppfnc
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>> Hissing down here in West Sussex
Not now it isn't. We got back from London about an hour ago. Strong southerly gales were predicted, and there was a bit of fuel-wasting headwind on the way, but not much rain and not much traffic at this end despite the odd ghastly mimser... why do people drive so damn slowly, and why do they brake downhill and then accelerate, incredibly slowly, up the other side? Once again I managed not to have a heart attack, but as usual it was a near thing.
It's windy outside but not cold actually. And the wind isn't as strong as predicted.
I notice that the real heavyweight weather stuff - Sky does a good one, worldwide but with tiresome portentous music - is updated very often, and changes radically by the hour. I dig that. Keeps you on your toes.
"Hell's bells! A tsunami in fifteen minutes! Seal the airlocks!'
I have yet to see water coming over the top of the South Downs. Perhaps my children will though.
:o}
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Unpleasantly wet and gusty here but not a lot of rain in it. Forecast is 60mph gusts later, somewhat concerned about that. There's a Scots pine type thing in the back garden that could do a bit of damage if t came down, and my electricity pole is waving about.
Give me snow in preference to this carp.
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Wind seems to have eased back a bit but sky dark and rain torrential - vertical stair rods + hail now. Western horizon brighter though and we may be in sunshine shortly.
Like being on top of a mountain!!
Slight leak round chimney flashing evidencing itself with damp patch on bedroom ceiling. Thought that was cured but torrent + wind found a way round.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 14:42
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Windy as a windy place here in Sarf Manchester. Some massive gusts. Dead wheely bins all over the place. Got mine in before it got bad.
Moved the caravan back a few yards to give Mr Crapfence's handiwork a better view of the wind but it's not down yet. He only repaired ( badly ) last weeks damage yesterday !
HO
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>>Slight leak round chimney flashing evidencing itself
Lorra peeps get that for some reason, ours is the same. so is neighbs, both got wood burners so no prob.
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>>>Lorra peeps get that for some reason
The reason being they need new flashing??
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>>The reason being they need new flashing??
I'm with ^^this^^ geezer.
:}
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Flashing being lead is expensive and very heavy. Ours weighed at least 50kgs.
(New flashing on two chimneys plus pointing , last year. Broke two (antique) ridge tiles - replaced FOC. Scaffolding contractor smashed 8 meters of cast iron guttering (1870ish pattern). New replacements FOC)
.
Last edited by: madf on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 16:20
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Various friends living near the River Thames are marooned, but say they will be ok as long as the power doesn't go off.
The area where I live - River Mole - has been flooded in the past.
The thought occurred, reasonably seriously, should I buy a camping stove to keep in the house for emergencies? With tins of beans and tins of soup and a stove, I could move upstairs and live in a somewhat rudimentary fashion.
So which stove and which fuel?
Petrol, paraffin, butane or propane? Any advice, campers?
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tinyurl.com/q5vygtw
You won't go wrong with one of these Duncan, most lorry drivers have one in the cab and mine is kept for power cuts now.
Cannisters are easy to get and to change as well.
Camion Stew?...I can give you the recipe if you want;)
Pat
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>> tinyurl.com/q5vygtw
>>
>> You won't go wrong with one of these Duncan, most lorry drivers have one in
>> the cab and mine is kept for power cuts now.
>>
>> Cannisters are easy to get and to change as well.
>>
>> Camion Stew?...I can give you the recipe if you want;)
>>
>> Pat
>>
How long do the gas cylinders last?
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That's hard to quantify as I probably cooked in the cab a couple of nights a wek and they seemed to last forever.
Used for emergencies at home, I haven't changed one in 5 years!
Pat
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>> Camion Stew?...I can give you the recipe if you want;)
>>
>> Pat
We used to have a caravan stew, or as my parents called it, rather ghoulishly - "Train Smash"
A tin of cooked stewing streak + a tin of chopped tomatoes. Empty into a pan, stir & heat. Serve with spuds or bread doorsteps, to soak up the juice.
Voila!
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>Camion Stew?...I can give you the recipe if you want;)
I read that as Carrion Stew. Visions of Pat chewing the feathers off a crow before throwing it in the pot. Should have gone to...
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>> tinyurl.com/q5vygtw
>>
>> You won't go wrong with one of these Duncan, most lorry drivers have one in
>> the cab and mine is kept for power cuts now.
>>
>> Cannisters are easy to get and to change as well.
>>
>> Camion Stew?...I can give you the recipe if you want;)
>>
>> Pat
Careful. I've had one of those for a few years, used it for the odd breakfast while caravanning, as I won't fry things inside. I nearly blew myself up with it when I forgot to put the trivet in the operating position. I overcame the interlock by brute force and ignorance, with the result that the flames played on the gas canister. By the time I realised, it was too hot to touch.
They're butane too, so prolonged use chills the canister so much that the flame almost dies.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 23:25
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For the past several years I have used an MSR Pocket Rocket stove. The one without piezo ignition. Must have spent at least 3 months with it under canvas, and used daily am & pm when I backpacked the SW Coast Path over a 6 week period. I use it in conjunction with an MSR Titanium kettle..a small pan, with tiny lip on it + lid, into which a cartridge fits perfectly.
Sorry but I have no idea on heavier stoves for mechanised transport camping.
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>> I could move upstairs and live in a somewhat rudimentary fashion.
Unless - and even if - you have a door to block off the downstairs, and have supplementary heating upstairs, this will be a very miserable way to live in a damp house. Pneumonia will strike soon enough. With no lighting, no sanitation etc. (if you flush your loos, the effluent will end up coming out of your downstairs loos/drains) you will rapidly head towards becoming very ill.
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Yes.
I did say that I was being reasonably serious. I don't think living upstairs without working toilet facilities would be feasible for anything other than a very short period of time.
I might find a camping stove useful for, er, camping type trips.
Even if we weren't flooded any loss of power, summer or winter, would mean that we couldn't cook. So the camping stove idea isn't too unrealistic.
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>> Petrol, paraffin, butane or propane? Any advice, campers?
Not petrol or paraffin indoors.
Bigger camping stoves will use either butane or propane with appropriate matching regulators. Butane is susceptible to cold under which conditions the liquid does not evaporate to gas quickly enough. Small cylinders like the Camping Gaz 206 display this even at moderately warm ambient (10-12C) as they lack the surface area to take up sufficient heat with a burner at full chat.
I think the device Pat suggests uses Butane or Butane/Propane mix in disposable cartridges. The Propane content improves cold weather performance but does not eliminate poor heat take up in a small cylinder.
And be very careful with ventilation.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 17:44
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This biggest no-no indoors/in-tent is a disposable barbeque.
Those babies chuck out carbon monoxide even when the ventilation is decent.
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Never known anything like this, the fence we share between next door has blown down, then 20 minutes later a tree has just fallen down, thankfully it has missed our house but I think my neighbours need a car, thankfully it was their clapped out M reg Toyota and not their brand new Mercedes.
Also reports of a tree hitting a tram. Manchester usually escapes this sort of extreme weather but not this time :(.
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Jeez! Wind really going for it in East Yorks.
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Maybe move the Panda under a tree?
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Tempted! I am so glad I postponed my job until tomorrow now, it seems a tree has just fallen on the road I would have been travelling down. It is on Barlow Moor Road, a main road into Didsbury from the M60. Never known the wind to do so much damage locally.
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.....as long as it's a Bamboo?
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Retpocileh pirt gnola eht Semaht: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26146361
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Maybe will even match the mighty "Hurricane Bawbag" from a couple of years ago. As well as dodging blown over HGVs going to work, it managed to knock over a brick wall nearby.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Bawbag
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 20:08
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Only the sweaty socks could get away with officially calling a hurricane a ball bag.
I believe the term is 'chapeau'...(copyright AC).
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And were we independent - the future looks rosy with such industrious minds at work:
tinyurl.com/jock-undies
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We have two silver birches in the garden - both planted 30 years ago and about 12 meters tall.. (or more -higher than the house)
when we had a severe gust at c 5pm today (80mph?), the tops and the upper half of the trunk were at around 30 degrees to the vertical - very impressive....
The oaks in the field did not move....
Last edited by: madf on Wed 12 Feb 14 at 20:27
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res. Not the other way around:-)
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Is it just me, or is anyone else becoming tired of seeing incessant flood/weather stories on the TV?
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>> Is it just me, or is anyone else becoming tired of seeing incessant flood/weather stories
>> on the TV?
Funnily enough at 10pm this evening, Lady Duncan said "do you want to watch The News or inside number 9?"
Even though we are quite close to the Thames Valley flooding we agreed we had seen enough flood water and would watch Inside Number 9 - and enjoyed it!
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Likewise. I watched 'Paul' on Film4 and laughed like a drain. No pun intended.
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>> is anyone else becoming tired of seeing incessant flood/weather stories on the TV?
Compassion fatigue Rastaman, identified long ago by that bien-pensant Irish chap whose name escapes me for the moment.
I have to say I feel very sorry for these people in Wraysbury and similar places who have muddy water up to their oxters (heh heh... thanks Paxo you old green Harris-tweed jacket-wearing top hack you) in filthy Thames water with their woodblock floors curling up and detaching. I wouldn't fancy that at all for myself.
So far s good. We're on some rock among sort of sandstoney stuff. The water goes past sort of.
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Staying with friends this week dpwn the coast from Oban. No wind here all afternoon, just light drizzle.
Seems we're in the eye of it. Candles are at the ready, battened down the chickens and we're ready for a rough night.
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Nice part of the country Dave, any sign of snow where you are?
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Weather Thread - Volume 9 - madf
