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More pedal power chat.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 22 Jan 14 at 19:24
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England's "oldest" bicycle shop, Howes Cycles of Cambridge, is about to close.
tinyurl.com/qj9ssjj - www.cambridge-news.co.uk
Now, 173 years on, John Howes & Sons – which has a claim to being the oldest cycle shop in England and once counted Charles Darwin among its customers – is set to close its doors for the final time.
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>> Now, 173 years on, John Howes & Sons – which has a claim to being
>> the oldest cycle shop in England and once counted Charles Darwin among its customers –
>> is set to close its doors for the final time.
>>
I suppose the problem is that they didn't evolve...
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It does seem a pity but I guess it's a Catch 22 sort of thing. It must be tough for an independent to compete at the lower end of the market where high volume low margin is the order of the day, compounded by low quality issues with their reputational downsides.
Converesely, targetting a more premium / specialist market must also be challenging as that customer will be more clued up on the real values of products, more liable to search harder for the best deals and more likely to be willing and able to carry out assembly and maintainance tasks themselves.
Add in the ease of using internet based supply lines with their attendant savings and it becomes difficult to see how a traditional bike shop could differentiate itself well enough to remain attractive enough to the consumer to continue to be viable.
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>> >> Now, 173 years on, John Howes & Sons – which has a claim to
>> being
>> >> the oldest cycle shop in England and once counted Charles Darwin among its customers
>> –
>> >> is set to close its doors for the final time.
>> >>
>>
>> I suppose the problem is that they didn't evolve...
Ho Ho Ho.
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I get the impression from the report that Howes is closing because there is no-one left with the family name to continue the business and not because it isn't viable. The cycle trade is booming at the moment.
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>> I get the impression from the report that Howes is closing because there is no-one
>> left with the family name to continue the business and not because it isn't viable.
>> The cycle trade is booming at the moment.
>>
What! You mean if your name is Smith you can't take over the business?
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>> What! You mean if your name is Smith you can't take over the business?
Reading between lines it would only remain viable with the goodwill etc associated with the Howes name. Even then the building may be worth more vacant as a potential coffee shop.
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>>>Howes is closing because there is no-one left with the family name to continue the business and not because it isn't viable.
My impression too. The current owner Michael Howes is 65 and wants to retire and there is no-one with the family name who wanted to carry it on... and he didn't want to "risk" the family name by selling it as a going concern. As far as I could see it was a busy old school cycle shop that looked to be doing OK... but it would never scale into making a fortune.
Their prices were always high and they had no time for someone pushing them to match online sellers. Some found them rude if they didn't want to buy the Howes way.
But those that liked their way were very loyal.
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To be fair to people like Howies and their reluctance to discount I knew several people who owned cycle shops and the margins on bikes was ultra thin, often no more than a tenner on the low end stuff retailing for a couple of hundred quid. They were competing against the likes of Halfords and the big discount chains who could buy in bulk. If they had a franchise with a manufacturer it meant being forced to stock models in unpopular colours which would sit in the shop taking up space till they eventually had to let them go at cost or even less. The profits mainly came from aftermarket sales, pedals, tyres and tubes etc and clothing sales. And the internet is a killer for the local shop, as it is for many types of business. In the last decade I was cycling I only ever went into a local shop to buy clothing, everything else came online where I could save up to 50% and sometimes more.
Labour rates for repair charges are what most businesses would describe as a joke, people still regard bikes as toys and expect often fairly skilled work to be done for a couple of quid. You only have to look at the cycling forums to find numerous threads of the type, "My bike shop charged me a tenner to replace two spokes and true the wheel, what a rip off". Anyone who's ever done that themselves will no it's not a ten minute job and a similarly involved repair at your local car dealer would leave you well over £150 out of pocket.
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It is possible to buy a BSO ( Bicycle Shaped Object ) for under a £100 but anyone who thinks they are getting a good one for that is deluded.
I think a lot of people who might enjoy cycling can be put off for life by having their early experiences tainted by rubbish kit.
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>>>under a £100 but anyone who thinks they are getting a good one for that is deluded. I think a lot of people who might enjoy cycling can be put off for life by having their early experiences tainted by rubbish kit.
Agreed. I've had a few mountain bikes through here this year, mostly 10-20yrs old. The buyers have all commented they'd rather have a well maintained old school bike for £60-£100 than buy short life junk.
I've also had a few "no brand" bikes I guess to be under 5yrs old (often left outside) and they head straight for the skip.
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>> Agreed. I've had a few mountain bikes through here this year, mostly 10-20yrs old. The
>> buyers have all commented they'd rather have a well maintained old school bike for £60-£100
Agreed +1. Got a bike from the tip for The Lad to take to Uni. Choice of paying £60 for a Claud Butler of late eighties vintage or an Apollo at half the price. Took the CB without a second thought. Needed new tyres and a bottom bracket cartridge and I changed all gear/brake cables as a precaution. Everything else I cleaned and fettled myself - a labour of love in the late September heatwave.
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>>>cleaned and fettled myself - a labour of love
Yes something very theraputic about working on older bikes. I keep an eye on Ebay for no-suspension bikes of a known make and within my size range plus over 10yrs old with that old school look.
I keep within a 10ml radius and under £25. I fettle them at no/minimal cost and ride a bit. If they are better than my current everyday bike I might "trade up" and sell my old one. If not I move them on with a fixed price listing and they always go within 10 days or so.
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>> I suppose the problem is that they didn't evolve...
Trust you to stick your spoke in.
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>> >> I suppose the problem is that they didn't evolve...
>>
>> Trust you to stick your spoke in.
>>
Always best to get out before you're saddled with debt...
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Sir Bradley's comments (from BBC website) after the investiture;
"I mean, it's quite humbling being here.
"I was just talking to some of the other people getting stuff, and asking them what they've been honoured for, and they're historic things, ground-breaking sciences or whatever.
"I've won a bike race, you know, and I feel a little bit inferior to everyone, really."
A refreshing breath of honesty and humility in the world of sport; and an honour richly deserved. Chapeau.
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>>A refreshing breath of honesty and humility in the world of sport; and an honour richly deserved. Chapeau.
+1.
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And inside 24hrs!!
You'd need to be mad but it's been done:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUWCeAzkc2Q&feature=share
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I've had my Specialized Rockhopper MTB for 25 years now, and when I see how much more advanced the kids bikes seem, feel like I am missing out. It needs new wheels anyway, and it has no suspension (which sort of dictates where I ride at the moment).
I am very much a leisure/light fitness type rider. I have started to look around, but there is a veritable ocean of information out there, and it is taking time sorting the wheat from the chaff. I know there are a few mountain bikers on here, so thought I would seek some advice.
1. I had set a budget of £1,500, but would gladly pay less if I could fulfill my needs.
2. Do all suspension systems front and rear have the ability to lock out?
3. Putting badge snobbery to one side, are the Halfords Boardman bikes any good? I am also interested in the German Canyon bikes, because of their apparent direct-sale VFM.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 2 Jan 14 at 09:06
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Well now, depends what you want to do with it but a few thoughts which may help.
Suspension isn't all that important to have unless you are going to be mainly on rough surfaces. In any event, rear suspension is in my view, more or less useless and just adds weight unless you're going to be getting airborne at speed on a regular basis. Front suspension is nice if you're trail riding on rough surfaces but I'd strongly advise getting lockable forks. It's amazing how much more useable the bike is on steep climbs if you can lock out the forks and it's nicer on tarmac with them stiff.
Brakes are the other big consideration. Rim brakes are fine for road or light trail use but you really want discs if you're going offroad. In my opinion it's not necessary to pay the extra for a hydraulic set up and what's more a cable operated disc system is easier to maintain as well as cheaper.
So in short, I'd be shopping for a hard tail, disc brakes and lockout forks at whatever budget you set.
Boardman are very good but you'll not actually go wrong at that level with Cannondale, Marin, GT, Giant or Specialized.
There is a recent fashion for 29" wheels rather than the traditional 26". They do seem to be able to roll through the bumps more effectively but to be honest I still prefer the smaller wheel for a more instant turn in.
I've bought quite a lot of kit from these people in the past including whole bikes. Usually well priced and often have special deals.
www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/
Happy to give you a view if you get anything shortlisted.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 2 Jan 14 at 09:06
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Have a nosey here...
www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 2 Jan 14 at 09:06
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You'd do worse than this BB
www.jejamescycles.co.uk/kona-cinder-cone-hardtail-mountain-bike-id67779.html
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 2 Jan 14 at 09:06
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These people are well known and have lots of branches. Whereabouts are you? The branch at Crawley has lots of choice.
www.evanscycles.com/
I have used Wiggle as well in the past, who I think are good.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 2 Jan 14 at 09:06
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Humpf, thanks very much for that. I ride on a variety of surfaces in the Surrey Hills, mostly tracks through woods, etc. Hilly but not rocky and often muddy, short stretches of Tarmac and some former railway lines that are gravelled over (I like them as there are no unexpected hills on railway lines, generally. ;-/ ) I did wonder whether rear suspension would be necessary (coming from a bike with no suspension) - it seems to me if you are on the saddle the suspension would just absorb your peddling energy? And rear suspension adds to both weight and price.
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Spot on assessment BB. Rear suspension is mainly just extra weight with little if any performance gain unless you're planning to get regularly extreme.
Interestingly enough, some of the highest end bikes use no suspension at all in the quest for weight saving.
You really don't need to over-raid the piggy bank for what you describe. £500 will get you something nice to ride.
Voodoo ( another Halfords brand ) are pretty good and don't discount Carrera either. Their "Vulcan" model is a damn good package for the money. Just think of it as a Ford Kuga as opposed to a LR Defender !
I have ( among others ) a Marin Northside Trail which gets used for general winter hacking about on forest trails. Simple bike but well built and frame geometry which will cope with most eventualities.
A good trick is to go for things which were launched a couple or more years ago. They can often be found at good discounts just because they're not this year's model. Doesn't make them bad bikes.
I have, and have had some ludicrously overspecified and overpriced bikes which, with the use of a stopwatch, you can just about convince yourself are worth it but the reality is, that's mostly man-maths once you get past the rubbish end of the market, and you get something reasonable it doesn't make much difference in normal leisure use.
If you like your old Speshy why not look at a modern version of it?
Good kit usually.
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I agree with Runfer, rear suspension is of limited use in everyday/leisure cycling. Adds weight, complexity and cost . Regularly see bikes with rider bobbing up and down on every pedal stroke. Wasted energy and risk of motion sickness.
The Brompton has a small very firm rubber spring on the rear for the fold and to damp out effects of small wheel. Even that needs an extra firm version for larger riders.
Evans are a bit of a mixed bag. If you know what you want their web prices are very good but accessories in the stores are priced at robbery levels. Some staff are very good but others have little if any product knowledge. Needing a bottom bracket tool a couple of years ago I had to resort to going behind the counter to identify the item, otherwise I'd have been given a crank tool.
Runfer mentions BikeRadaran another is Cyclechat www.cyclechat.net/
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>> I've had my Specialized Rockhopper MTB for 25 years now...
>> ... it has no suspension (which sort of dictates where I ride
>> at the moment).
What type of terrain is it keeping you off?
I have had a rigid Rockhopper since 1995 and have taken it over all sorts of terrain. I also have a more recent Rockhopper with front suspension but although it is smoother on bumpy tracks and faster down rocky paths I still found myself coming back to the rigid for 95% of my off-road rides.
More recently I have been doing more on-road riding and have swapped to 1.50" road tyres. These are fast enough to keep up with my friends on dedicated road bikes and still are ok on level tracks and canal/river banks.
Despite saying the above, I understand the draw of a new bike and I am looking for a new road bike myself!
Runfer has much greater and more recent experience and all his comments look sound.
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I am finding the Rockhopper uncomfortable on faster downhill stuff. Also I think I need new wheels (the valve holes keep shredding the tube, with or without sheaths fitted, for some reason), the brakes are ancient, the gears feel worn, and it feels heavy compared to some of the newer bikes I've seen. I could replace the worn bits, but a new bike would be nicer. I think 25 years is pretty good with one bike!
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OK. You've convinced me, you definitely need a new bike with front suspension.
As mentioned above there will some bargains to be had on 2013 or earlier models.
I was surprised how little lighter the new bikes were than mine, but if you spend all your budget you should be able to see a real improvement.
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Knocked off, run over and trapped under car for 30 mins, but basically uninjured:
tinyurl.com/nnb4bft (DM)
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>> Knocked off, run over and trapped under car for 30 mins, but basically uninjured:
>> tinyurl.com/nnb4bft (DM)
>>
''Mr Futers - who had just pulled out of a junction in Worthing, West Sussex - was wedged under the front of the car. His cycle was also trapped and left a mangled wreck.''
Maybe.. he will learn what a give way sign means...
Oh... they don't apply to bikes do they...
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Anyone else notice the TV coverage outside the law courts, when a cyclist (apparently without lights) weaved between stationary traffic at a zebra crossing and shot in front of a pedestrian on the crossing?
Where's the BIB when they're needed?
Nearly took out a black clad cyclist tonight. The only front light was something that appeared to be in his breast pocket, intermittently hidden by the folds of his jacket!
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>>The only front light was something that appeared to be in his breast pocket, intermittently hidden by the folds of his jacket!
That will just have been the screen of his phone lighting up with a call or text.............
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Too many serious issues across the forum recently...
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paul-nam-tweeted-sir-cockhardt-2995182
let's see what you have to say about this, if the link can get past the swearfilter
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>> Too many serious issues across the forum recently...
>>
>> www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paul-nam-tweeted-sir-cockhardt-2995182
>>
>> let's see what you have to say about this, if the link can get past
>> the swearfilter
>>
>>
That's quite funny actually.
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Oh crap that's the job I do!
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>> let's see what you have to say about this, if the link can get past
>> the swearfilter
What has that to do with cycling?
People make jokes like that all the time.
Where it all goes wrong is when people use a public forum to make private jokes.
If you don't want to be quoted in the Mirror, don't tweet. Most people know that, which is why Twitter is so tedious.
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What gorgeous morning ! If you've got a bike and have access to a forest, it'll be fab today. Fill a flask, take a camera but just mind the bears !
;-)
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Paper always handy when there's bears in woods I guess Henry !
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JC has twitted about a cyclist he observed allegedly 'making a point' by being in the middle of the road.
tinyurl.com/lhz5dgq
To me, the cyclist is behaving correctly. It looks like a central London road with side streets crossing at regular intervals, rider wants to be visible to emerging drivers. The road is narrow and he's approaching a junction where he wants to be seen by following traffic and not left hooked. Maybe he wants to turn right or go straight on.
Judging by the road opposite the x/roads there were probably parked cars until the zebra crossing zig zags - need to keep out of the door zone.
Neither does he want to be forced against the kerb by a close pass. It also looks as if he'd correctly stopped for the young woman who used the crossing.
In any event it would be illegal for Clarkson to overtake in the zig zags.
And then there's a point about using his phone/camera while driving.
Cyclist's only offence is to be in front!!!
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At the point where the pic was taken, yes, I'd agree with all your points. We have no idea though how long he'd been riding like this but I doubt if even Clarkson's fuse is short enough to just take the pic as soon as he comes up behind the cyclist.
My guess is that he'd been in the middle of the road for some distance before that; and if he wasn't making rapid or even reasonable progress then it would annoy me too.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 13:51
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The line of parked cars ahead, and possibly to the rear before the chevron markings, gives a clue. He would be expected to ride out of the door zone. In which case, the correct path for a cyclist is where he is photographed. Speed? Usually faster than cars, and the sort of machine he rides is not a clunker. As for angry, that is a given for car drivers. Usually caused by other vehicles blocking their way, or queuing:) There is a remedy: walk.
Last edited by: NIL on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 14:06
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Again, I wouldn't disagree with your post; till you mention car drivers being the ones who are permanently angry.
Perhaps a few cyclists should take your advice rather than ride on busy pavements. ;-)
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And if the cyclist was driving a car instead........................................?
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Harleyman: no argument on that!
Last edited by: NIL on Sun 12 Jan 14 at 14:34
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According to cycling sites the location is junction of Draycott Place with Cadogan Gardens:
goo.gl/maps/mm1CS
A narrow road with parking bays down one side. Not somewhere it comfortable to have a Range Rover squeeze past. Aside from making it difficult for him to endanger you by trying you also need to allow for car doors opening and have a space to veer into if he, or someone coming the other way does something silly.
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Jeremy Vine got involved apparently (he cycles):
tinyurl.com/mqhqhhn (DM)
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"Jeremy Vine got involved apparently (he cycles)"
I just read that article and it's this bit that shocked me:
"Cycling is clean, efficient and very cheap. My last car service cost more than £900; when I had my bicycle looked over, the fellow apologetically charged me £72."
£72 for a look over? Did the guy in the bike shop see him coming?
I try and keep our bikes in top condition, we've had a few punctures, damaged chain, funny noise, badly adjusted gear changer etc... There's a bike place next to the supermarket so if it needs anything, I drop it in, do the shopping and pick it up again. It's always a tenner at the most. It's cheaper to use these guys than to do anything myself because it uses my precious work time.
So what did he get for a '£72 look-over' then? Two new wheels, new handlebars, pedals and a bike frame more like...
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A full service at a bike shop ( full strip down, lube, new cables, re-set gears and brakes etc ) is normally in the range of £25 ( for a cowboy ) to £50 ( for a proper job using quality kit )
Any more than that ( excluding any replacement parts of course ) is cheeky.
I do all mine myself though. I'm quite fussy about set ups and want to know it's all been done properly. A friend of mine had his very posh mtb serviced at what we would both have considered to be a pukka workshop only to have his front wheel come off on a steep partially airborne descent. The result wasn't pretty for him or the bike.
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>> A full service at a bike shop ( full strip down, lube, new cables, re-set
>> gears and brakes etc ) is normally in the range of £25 ( for a
>> cowboy ) to £50 ( for a proper job using quality kit )
Those are provincial prices but I expect JV had his done in London. Cycle Surgery in Holborn charge £130 for a full service:
www.cyclesurgery.com/workshops/content/fcp-content#full-service
Add a set of brake blocks and a chain and you're in the ballpark off which he wrote.
Like Humph I do all my own servicing and repairs. After forty years of fettling bikes there's very little I won't tackle. Hub gears and wheel building/truing are probably the only jobs I'd need to trust to a shop.
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Makes you wonder where they get their prices from though. I'm not a trained bike mechanic but I can strip down, lube and rebuild/reset a bike in under an hour.
Did two of ours last night while the the mince was simmering.
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I read that as 'the mice was simmering...'
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>> Jeremy Vine got involved apparently (he cycles):
I do try to like cyclists. Comments like that don't help my cause. ;-)
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>> >> Jeremy Vine got involved apparently (he cycles):
>>
>> I do try to like cyclists. Comments like that don't help my cause. ;-)
Well he did call Clarkson a 'muppet' to his (virtual) face - credit where credit's due? :)
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>> Cyclist's only offence is to be in front!!!
Yes.
As far as I can see, he's just using the road.
Why do (non-cycling, presumably) drivers think cyclists should be in the gutter?
The only thing you can guarantee if you are stupid enough to ride there is that vehicles will squeeze by with minimal clearance, when you have nowhere to go and may well be approaching a sunken drain.
I'm prepared to give Clarkson the benefit of the doubt and assume he's actually intelligent enough not to terrorise other road users, but unfortunately his Toad persona inspires a lot of less intelligent imitators.
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I drove along a narrow, winding, Devon A road on Saturday...and for quite some time was behind an older chap (looked 70's plus, from the little I could see in his mirror).
He was driving a gold X Type estate diesel...badly.
He seemed to have very little judgement on gaps and would pull in to let oncoming traffic pass, regardless of the circumstances, which had me wonder about his spacial judgement, confidence and general eyesight.
The other thing was his windscreen was filthy on the inside and the winter sun was very bad (so much so, I'd stopped earlier in the van and given my screen a good clean..even though I keep it pretty good anyway). One more thing was, I wear good quality sunglasses and the old boy wasn't wearing any at all.
On one bit (Yealmpton to Newton Ferrers), whilst driving up a slight hill, into the very bright winter sun...I noticed a cyclist cycling slowly uphill...
...the old boy did not.
I really did think the old boy was going to drive right over him. I don't mean clout him with the door mirror or strike a significant glancing blow...I mean fairly and squarely hit him solid in the rear...
My heart was in my mouth for a split second...and at the absolute last possible second, the old boy did the most enormous swerve..and missed him by a gnat's knacker.
I cannot possibly write on here how close it was to a death or very serious injury..and the cyclist doesn't know. He is a very lucky man indeed...and so am I, I wouldn't fancy having to try to deal with the aftermath of that until an ambulance got there.
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>> I really did think the old boy was going to drive right over him. I
>> don't mean clout him with the door mirror or strike a significant glancing blow...I mean
>> fairly and squarely hit him solid in the rear...
>>
>> My heart was in my mouth for a split second...and at the absolute last possible
>> second, the old boy did the most enormous swerve..and missed him by a gnat's knacker.
>>
>> I cannot possibly write on here how close it was to a death or very
>> serious injury..and the cyclist doesn't know. He is a very lucky man indeed...and so am
>> I, I wouldn't fancy having to try to deal with the aftermath of that until
>> an ambulance got there.
A mucky windscreen can be a real impediment in those into sun moments. The Lad and I left home for Liverpool at 09:00 yesterday - Uni run. Beautiful morning, frost gone but car a bit steamed inside. Thought screen was sufficiently demisted to go but but as soon as we turned towards sun it was clearly not. The demist on the older 'lingo is very good and it only took another minute stopped by the community centre at end of our road for it to clear completely.
Being taken out from behind like that is a nightmare scenario for a cyclist. Such incidents are rare in commuting but probably account for significant proportion of the crashes on rural A & B roads which are actually the most dangerous for riding on. One needs to listen out carefully for cars, at least nutters' cars tend to be throaty, and be ready to go for the ditch if he's a real loon.
The CTC used to have a true story, oft republished in December's Cycletouring, of a party of riders towards end of a day's ride hear an engine gradually get louder behind until it took out their tail end charlie, flinging him over a hedge with fatal injuries. Goes on to recount how some riders stayed with the victim to care/comfort while others hared offf in search of a telephone (log before mobiles).
The driver was drunk and had left the pub at kicking out time when the afternoon 'session' ended at 15:00 - as they did in those days.
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>> listen out carefully for cars, at least nutters' cars tend to be throaty, and be ready to go for the ditch if he's a real loon.
There isn't always a ditch of course, just a high bank sometimes.
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>>
>> A mucky windscreen can be a real impediment in those into sun moments.
That's why I've been out cleaning the screen this afternoon, given my morning commute is often it to a rising sun (when it isn't widdling it down)
low sun is implicated in this sad tale
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25703054
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I'm in my seventies, more easily dazzled by the sun and enemy headlights, more faffing and indecisive, a smoker (so ghastly film on inside of screen) and extremely idle (so that most of the usual attempts to clean it, soon abandoned, just make it a lot worse).
Needs a good going over with meths. I've got the meths, but have I got the courage, the heart, the brains? Almost certainly not.
Today I idly ran a finger across a headlamp glass. Despite the poor light it became obvious, but only then, that the glass is thickly caked with mud, chalk and other crap. I had been attributing my dimming headlights to my dimming brain and eyesight. So it's an ill wind that doesn't briefly encourage a chap, what? All I need to do now is remember to run some sort of rag over the headlamps before I need to use them again.
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>>All I need to do now is remember to run some sort of rag over the headlamps before I need to use them again.
The rag has been superseded by the microfibre cloth.
Just thought you should know.
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Well, I thought it funny...
tinyurl.com/nkccnsm
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Huh, I wondered why my wife was suggesting that I got out on the bike more.
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I note the guy was 22... I hope he made good use of his... err... time.
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Have you been cycling or are you just pleased to see me?
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Interesting programme from Radio 4 still on listen again:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03pjfj3
Dr Kevin Fong considers cycling in London with contributions from fellow medics, drivers and the Mayor's 'cycling czar' Andrew Gilligan.
Interesting stuff all through but particularly at end where he looks at statistics. MAkes point I've mentioned here before the while the killed bit of Killed/Seriously Injured (KSI) is definite the other set covers everything from broken wrists to life changing amputations or head trauma.
Well worth a listen.
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Gruinaud journo does a cycle video of London junctions:
order-order.com/2014/01/16/jumps-red-light-in-cycle-safety-video/
Fast forward to 4:40 and watch him breeze through a red light and then straight down the nearside of a vehicle indicating to turn left.
Priceless.
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Or an amber light? Or a fix? Thought amber was in the centre of the array, not the top.
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>Or an amber light? Or a fix? Thought amber was in the centre of the array, not the top.
I think it's just low quality video. If you watch the full clip, other red lights appear amber at certain angles.
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>> Gruinaud journo does a cycle video of London junctions:
>>
>> order-order.com/2014/01/16/jumps-red-light-in-cycle-safety-video/
>>
>> Fast forward to 4:40 and watch him breeze through a red light and then straight
>> down the nearside of a vehicle indicating to turn left.
>>
>> Priceless.
It certainly looks as though he shot a red in which case not good.
Passing the left indicating vehicle there is reasonably safe if you know the road and the light sequencing and can get ahead, as the camera bike did.
The vehicle is in the centre lane at junction with A5202 Camley St which accesses the domestic end of St Pancras before going on to Camden. That lane is ahead only; my reading is that driver is intending to go left at next junction, after Kings Cross, which is York Way. Cyclist, presumably returning to Guardian Towers, will be going same way and may or may not be re-passed.
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>It certainly looks as though he shot a red in which case not good.
But what is the light and Keep Clear markings for Bromp? It doesn't look like a pedestrian crossing and there are no dropped kerbs for access routes. Seems an odd layout.
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>> But what is the light and Keep Clear markings for Bromp? It doesn't look like
>> a pedestrian crossing and there are no dropped kerbs for access routes. Seems an odd
>> layout.
>>
Watching the film I thought it was a pedestrian crossing by one of the exits from KX/StP Underground. You're right though, it's not. Cannot get a feel for it in streetview on e/b side, there is a bus in the way.
Viewed from the westbound side it's clearly visible. I think the lights and Keep Clear are protecting part of a bike route allowing cycles, but not other vehicles, to turn right from Argyle St into the eastbound side of Euston Road.
This is view from the end of Argyle St including cycle only traffic lights.
goo.gl/maps/LtfZj
I doubt it's much used.
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>I think the lights and Keep Clear are protecting part of a bike route..
Mmm, could have been embarrassing if he'd collected another bike coming from his right across the front of the coach.
>I doubt it's much used.
Expensive solution to a trivial problem by the look of it.
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>> Mmm, could have been embarrassing if he'd collected another bike coming from his right across
>> the front of the coach.
Indeed, but I suspect he was aware of its existence and there's sufficient space to manage such conflictions
>>
>> Expensive solution to a trivial problem by the look of it.
Camden have long form for such things and for digging them up and rebuilding every few years. But they can only spend the parking revenue on transport so they've got do do something.
In a rational world the money from parking charges/fines in some of the most expensive real estate in Europe would be re-distributed.
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>.. there's sufficient space to manage such conflictions.
Ahh. Maybe that's why the Keep Clear is there?
Somewhere to pick up bits of bike?
;-)
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That cyclist/journalist is a prat.
He seems to think that the whole of Central London should revolve around him, rather than him fitting in with the busy city (like everyone else has to), bemoans pedestrians who dare to cross the road in front of him when their light is red (not exactly unusual in busy Central London). He moans about the road restrictions during road-works in Victoria - pretty much inevitable. He refuses to use off-road cycle paths, moans about being boxed in by buses as he approached Hyde Park Corner, whilst not using the bus lane, etc. etc.
If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen!
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@ Boxsterboy
If you think Peter Walker's chat is moaning or prattish you nrrd to get out more! I can understand people might think that about Gaz who appeared in the Cyclewars thing last year (though I wouldn't agree).
Walker talks us through five nasty junctions in a commentary style similar to that advocated by the IAM. I cannot see where he refuses to use an off road path though he does comment on difficulty of access to one and then it's being inexplicably closed.
Those road works in Victoria seem to have been there forever and are a 'mare whether on four wheels, two or Shanks's pony.
And four wheel traffic would never bemoan pedestrians stepping in the road. No never.......
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Why oh why would anyone want to cycle on a road like this?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25816281
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>> Why oh why would anyone want to cycle on a road like this?
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25816281
To get to work or home again?
Drivers should be watching where they're going and be properly capable of avoiding obstacles.
How on earth does hitting/killing a vulnerable road user only get charged as driving without due care?
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>> To get to work or home again?
What job is worth dying for?
>>
>> Drivers should be watching where they're going and be properly capable of avoiding obstacles.
Should being the operative word..but we all know some don't.
>>
>> How on earth does hitting/killing a vulnerable road user only get charged as driving without
>> due care?
Presumably because the next one up 'reckless' demands more evidence and is harder to prove..and...
...if someone is willing to cycle in lane 1 on a 3 laned dual carriageway knowing that several tons of metal (or more) is easily likely to ram them up their 'arris..in low winter sun conditions...then they need to take some responsibility for putting themselves in such mortal danger, regardless of their 'rights'.
You wouldn't cycle down lane 1 of a motorway..so why do so on a 3 laned dual carriageway with smaller lanes?
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WP,
You and I are never going to agree on this as, apart from my advocacy of cyclist's rights we have wildly differing views on risk.
Just because there's a one in a million chance of being in the sort of incident reported is no reason to allow yourself to be frightened off the road. The Embankment in London is a case in point. I rode it regularly a couple of times a month between Temple Place and Westminster Bridge from 2002 until last year. Not wholly comfortable with it but took my lane and although odd motor vehicle came to close I was never intimidated by it.
I did however prefer the Strand when doing it daily.
A three lane urban road is not a motorway and we shouldn't allow people to get in the mindset that it is. As I've said before in the mid eighties we regularly used the A40 from Greenford or Polish War Memorial to Denham accessing Lee Gate, Jordans or Bradenham Youth Hostels on a Friday night. Not pleasant but better than going through the lanes beyond Harefield with old fashioned battery lights.
There's no mortal danger in being an urban cyclist.
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>> A three lane urban road is not a motorway and we shouldn't allow people to
>> get in the mindset that it is.
Hmm. Interesting viewpoint.
A three laned urban road isn't a motorway, so that's it..no other thought needed, let's crack on.
Trouble is, it IS like a motorway, only worse. Just because the definition means the designations are different, you cannot just ignore all the risks.
A motorway has wider lanes, a hard shoulder, rumble strips, etc, etc.
A three laned road does not, so is more unsafe, because you and I know the speeds are similar.
If you and people like you are willing to shut your minds to the appalling risks..fair enough.
Personally I think it's sad, because families suffer when their loved ones don't come home.
Did you ever read that book, 'the emperor's got no clothes on'...there's a newer version 'the road is safe really'
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>> >> A three lane urban road is not a motorway and we shouldn't allow people
>> to
>> >> get in the mindset that it is.
>>
>> Hmm. Interesting viewpoint.
>>
>> A three laned urban road isn't a motorway, so that's it..no other thought needed, let's
>> crack on.
I didn't say that. Urban multi lane roads, whether they're the Embankment or Mountbatten Way need appropriate attention and riding technique. That means ocupying your lane, not lurking in the gutter.
>> Trouble is, it IS like a motorway, only worse. Just because the definition means the
>> designations are different, you cannot just ignore all the risks.
>>
>> A motorway has wider lanes, a hard shoulder, rumble strips, etc, etc.
>>
>> A three laned road does not, so is more unsafe, because you and I know
>> the speeds are similar.
Don't give me that patronising you and I know carp. The speed limit on the Embankment is 30 and it's probably the same on Mountbatten Way.
>> If you and people like you are willing to shut your minds to the appalling
>> risks..fair enough.
The risks are not appalling, they really are not. The greatest danger for cyclists are on rural A roads.
>> Personally I think it's sad, because families suffer when their loved ones don't come home.
If you need to rely on that argument or the one about the feelings of the driver who kills on these roads you've lost.
>> Did you ever read that book, 'the emperor's got no clothes on'...there's a newer version
>> 'the road is safe really'
I cannot respond to that without offending the swear filter.
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>> I didn't say that. Urban multi lane roads, whether they're the Embankment or Mountbatten Way
>> need appropriate attention and riding technique. That means ocupying your lane, not lurking in the
>> gutter.
It's an 'A' road, subject to a 50mph limit, 3 lanes, a bit like the North Circular...you know the road that everyone drives along at 70 mph....do you REALLY think it's wise to cycle in the middle of the lane?
>> Don't give me that patronising you and I know carp. The speed limit on the
>> Embankment is 30 and it's probably the same on Mountbatten Way.
How many 30mph roads have three lanes?..I've just looked it up on Google maps, it's a 50mph limit
>> The risks are not appalling, they really are not. The greatest danger for cyclists are
>> on rural A roads.
Fast roads are lethal. Cops are not allowed to police on them, unless they've had a 'fast road' course and they are usually exclusive to traffic officers.
My last posting in the Old Bill was on Barnet Borough, where you have the A406 North Circular Road, A41, A1, M1, A5..It was dodgy at times stood in a reflective jacket, with three police vehicles with their blue lamps going...let alone one bloke cycling.
>> >> Personally I think it's sad, because families suffer when their loved ones don't come
>> home.
>>
>> If you need to rely on that argument or the one about the feelings of
>> the driver who kills on these roads you've lost.
Just stating a fact. Can't work out how you'd assess that as having 'lost'. I've done the door knocking bit and it's most unpleasant. In my mind, the one that's lost is the dead one.
>> I cannot respond to that without offending the swear filter.
Ah, profanity instead of discussion..now that's a 'lost'.
Last edited by: Westpig on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 22:16
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WP
You and I will never agree on this and no amount of snip quoting argument will change that.
If I wanted to get from Town Quay in Southampton to Totton then out into the New Forest I'd consider riding along the A33. It's a busy urban road (although some of the streetview maps show it near deserted) and needs appropriate care. Wear hi viz, keep out of the gutter , riding secondary use observation and keep my speed up. Not as safe as a Northants lane but within my assessment of OK.
After a few times I might think it too risky and look for an alternative. Bottom line is it's an urban road with houses on it and many access roads from other housing developments. There may be no easy alternatives.
Would avoid the North Circular these days and probably the A41 as well. Unless the A5 has changed radically in the last 20 yrs then except for the flyover at Staples Corner it's urban High Street, e.g. through West Hendon to Kingsbury Road. In my twenties I used it as part on my commute riding from Canons Park almost to Marble Arch, including the flyover, before ducking east towards Holborn.
The Emperor's clothes are a nonsense comparison; they're are either on or off. Cycling safety is nuanced and even the risks of urban multi lane roads can be managed with care and right technique.
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I wonder whether the victim was keeping to the very left, or had taken the lane.
I came up behind a cyclist on a dual carriageway very recently. I saw him in good tme as there was 50 or 60 yards of space in front of me. The van ahead was tailgating a similar vehicle and did a jink as he saw the cyclist at the last minute.
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Had a near miss with a cyclist in the lorry yesterday. Coming out of Cowbridge towards Cardiff, wide-ish single carriageway uphill towards left bend, five or six slow-moving cyclists in front of me, and I see an 18-tonner approaching coming down the hill t'other way. I slow down, let the lorry pass, mirror, signal, overtake giving plenty of room; as I am passing one of the cyclists, he pulls out without looking behind to overtake his slower-moving mate. I didn't have to swerve as I'd already given them plenty of room, but he was no more than a foot from my nearside step and that's too damn close for my liking. Had I been in a smaller truck with lower mirror arms, the outcome could well have been much worse, could easily have knocked his head off.
Can bet my bottom dollar though that if I had hit him it'd have been deemed my fault.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Tue 21 Jan 14 at 18:21
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>> Can bet my bottom dollar though that if I had hit him it'd have been deemed my fault.
Probably. There are hysterical safety wonks who would like any collision between a motor vehicle and a cyclist or pedestrian to be blamed automatically on the vehicle driver. I know otherwise rational individuals who take that view.
With good and honest evidence from the other cyclists though, the accident that didn't occur might still have been deemed an accident by an inquest or trial.
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>> Had a near miss with a cyclist in the lorry yesterday. Coming out of Cowbridge
>> towards Cardiff, wide-ish single carriageway uphill towards left bend, five or six slow-moving cyclists in
>> front of me, and I see an 18-tonner approaching coming down the hill t'other way.
>> I slow down, let the lorry pass, mirror, signal, overtake giving plenty of room; as
>> I am passing one of the cyclists, he pulls out without looking behind to overtake
>> his slower-moving mate. I didn't have to swerve as I'd already given them plenty of
>> room, but he was no more than a foot from my nearside step and that's
>> too damn close for my liking. Had I been in a smaller truck with lower
>> mirror arms, the outcome could well have been much worse, could easily have knocked his
>> head off.
>>
>> Can bet my bottom dollar though that if I had hit him it'd have been
>> deemed my fault.
The Highway Code tells you to give cyclists room as they may do unpredictable stuff like this. You did and the cyclist was untouched. If he crapped himself as you passed he might learn to listen and look better next time.
On a contrary point why do vehicle drivers have a 'must get past the cyclist' mentality. I was out for a ride through local lanes with Mrs B this afternoon. I'm a faster rider than her and I was on my Dawes Galaxy while she was on an urban MTB so I'd left her a bit behind.
I came up to the junction here:
goo.gl/maps/7zRbt
A large tipper, the sort that delivers grain to Heygates Mill, insisted on passing me before the junction even though I was within 25yds of it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 May 14 at 02:13
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>>
>> A large tipper, the sort that delivers grain to Heygates Mill, insisted on passing me
>> before the junction even though I was within 25yds of it.
>>
If it's any consolation, cars do that to HGV's on an annoyingly regular basis, especially coming up to traffic islands so you have my full sympathy.
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I was within a second of stepping out of my gate at 5pm when a black clad cyclist, no lights, silently whooshed past on the pavement at some speed.
This is getting quite common here. I assume it's because we have speed bumps in the road and the newish footpaths are nice, smooth Bitmac. This one didn't hit me...unlike the last one !
I hope he or she heard what I shouted !
HO
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>>
>> I was within a second of stepping out of my gate at 5pm when a
>> black clad cyclist, no lights, silently whooshed past on the pavement at some speed.
>>
>> This is getting quite common here. I assume it's because we have speed bumps in
>> the road and the newish footpaths are nice, smooth Bitmac. This one didn't hit me...unlike
>> the last one !
>>
>> I hope he or she heard what I shouted !
>>
>> HO
Stupid cycling. If there are bumps in road you either slow for them or take weight on bars & pedals and ride over.
There are next to no excuses for riding on pavement and if you do you ride at walking pace in first gear.
I've had a degree of success with a sotto voce "you're old enough to rode on the road".
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Had one or two near events with cyclists flying along the pavement, particularly as I stepped out from a path. One lunatic riding at speed, until I flagged him down, and mentioned perhaps using the road? He uttered threats but rode off.
Also concerned by drivers of cars on the pavement, recently. One example decided to zip along the pavement outside our place, to the next driveway. To make the transition off the kerb less sharp? Happened only a month ago, as I walked down our path with view to the right obscured by hedges.
Another: little old lady driving along, wholly on the pavement, to park, handily for Sainsbury's. Dog and I had to move out of the way or be crunched. There were words.
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Maybe I'm a wimp. But I quite enjoy life. I'd rather be alive and a wimp than dead and right.
WP's view seems to me entirely rational. Why would you want to put yourself - as a cyclist - in such a dangerous position. The car driver is risking a few points and a few pounds; you've got your life on the line.
Brompton is of course 'right' but that'll be of little comfort to Mrs B and the Bromptonlets.
I've done a lot of cycling in my time - including a three-miles-each-way commute to a railway station.
There are places I'll cycle in London, and places where I'll get off and push. I enjoy life, Brompton would rather be tip the scales towards being right than being alive; I go the other way.
You can talk about educating drivers as much as you like; it only takes one to have forgotten/failed/not had his education to turn you into raspberry jam.
It's all about one's individual risk perception. Same reason as why I won't use a cycle helmet or a skiing helmet.
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>> It's all about one's individual risk perception. Same reason as why I won't use a
>> cycle helmet or a skiing helmet.
That and not assertion of 'rights' is the key for me. Maybe I have a high appetite for risk, for example I'll walk alone in Snowdonia or the Lakes in circs where an accident might leave me vulnerable to exposure or whatever. Good boots and clothing, spare food, careful reading of maps/guides and willingly turning back if it looks dodgy are OK control measures.
Which bits of London do you regard as too risky so you get off and push? Most of the centre is so slow that everything's moving at bike pace and you can just slot in.
Victoria Embankment is at top end of what I'd regard as acceptable. Twice a month and I could cope with odd near pass. Using it daily found me moving to the more congested Strand and Trafalgar Sq rather than Parliament Sq.
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Too dangerous:
Aldwych. Elephant & Castle. Tower Bridge. Hyde Park Corner. Park Lane (perfectly good cycle paths through the park, doesn't stop cyclists from using the road though). Blackfriars Bridge. Anything that's a bus lane where the bus might try to overtake you.
>>Maybe I have a high appetite for risk
That's very interesting. And I think very relevant here. If I'm driving my car and rode up onto the pavement and killed a granny, then that was clearly dangerous driving.
If I'm driving my car round Aldwych (which is scary enough in a car) and an idiot cyclist (sorry, somebody with a higher appetite for risk than the average) gets himself trapped between me and a bus, then his fault.
I can say with absolute certainty that I will never be killed on a bicycle on the Aldwych.
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>> Too dangerous:
>>
>> Aldwych. Elephant & Castle. Tower Bridge. Hyde Park Corner. Park Lane (perfectly good cycle paths
>> through the park, doesn't stop cyclists from using the road though). Blackfriars Bridge.
The only one of those I was regularly close to was Aldwych. Kingsway to Fleet St it's OK as you're on the left but there's no need to use it as it's much more pleasant to go through Lincoln's Inn then Carey St>Chancery Lane>Bream's Buildings>Fetter Lane.
Ridden round it a few times going Kingsway to Waterloo and while I'd not want to do it daily it's OK if you take the right line off Kingsway and look as though you mean it.
Again thought it can be avoided by keeping west of Kingsway eg Montague St>Bury Place>contraflow lane in New Oxford St>Newton St then Gt Queen St and Long Acre to Bow St/Wellington St and cycle route across to Waterloo Bridge s/b.
>>Anything that's
>> a bus lane where the bus might try to overtake you.
These days London Buses are very good at giving room, a consequence of cycling in London hitting critical mass and a the companies taking reports of transgressors seriously. Hold your line, ride far enough from the kerb that you've room to move left on the off chance one does try to pass too close.
>> >>Maybe I have a high appetite for risk
>>
>> That's very interesting. And I think very relevant here. If I'm driving my car and
>> rode up onto the pavement and killed a granny, then that was clearly dangerous driving.
Agreed but i don't see the relevance.
>> If I'm driving my car round Aldwych (which is scary enough in a car) and
>> an idiot cyclist (sorry, somebody with a higher appetite for risk than the average) gets
>> himself trapped between me and a bus, then his fault.
I'm ignoring the gybe about idiot cyclist.
Cyclists are hardly a rarity on the Aldwych you and the bus driver need to watch for them, just like you do with cars. If I think I'm in danger of being trapped I'll steer and either brake or accelerate then holler profanities!!
>>
>> I can say with absolute certainty that I will never be killed on a bicycle
>> on the Aldwych.
I cannot be absolutely certain but I've reduced the chance to an acceptable minimum by refining my riding technique and positioning.
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Cycling Corner - Volume 8 - VxFan