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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
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Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 9 Aug 13 at 10:13
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Massa outqualifies Alonso again...and was unlucky in his strategy during the last race. Good to see.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 23 Mar 13 at 20:45
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But it was a Q3 'shootout' as they annoyingly call it on a wet-in-parts but drying track. All the usual people are up front but their order may not entirely reflect their race ability. I agree Massa can be hugely quick but Alonso has more bottom.
Supposed to be dry for the race. But in the tropics, I dunno. Anyway I won't be up for it live like my son-in-law who gets up before dawn when he's working anyway, and is young, strong and still a believer so to speak... jolly good chap in fact.
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Hostile stuff at the end of the race today, Webber and Vettel about to have a punch up outside the team motor home, and Rosberg is going to put arsenic in Ross Brawns tea. You need to watch this stuff, specially at the end. Muted celebrations on the podium.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Mar 13 at 01:02
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Hostile stuff at the end of the race today, Webber and Vettel
The RedBull Logo has never seemed so appropriate!
tinyurl.com/redbull-inyourface
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At least Hamilton was contrite and apologetic. F1 as a sport gets no credit out of this.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 24 Mar 13 at 10:05
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Father Webber just played the race card! "RedBull are a european team and favour the european driver........"
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>> youtu.be/3ehTWyV2hdI
>>
Remind me again? Who do I work for now?
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A decent race, shame team orders came into it but them it is a team sport as they always tell us. Im not sure why they didnt simply let Nico pass Lewis, but it seems Nico was looking to the bigger picture later on - a 3rd, 4th finish for Mercedes is a real step up.
Not sure the Red Bull driver management will be quite so easy, I wonder what the odds on a punch up are. Mark looked peed off before the podium. I suppose for fans it will mean mark will really run Vettel hard this season which will be great to watch, so long as they dont drive into eachother.
Moron of the month goes to Alonso who should have taken a new nose when he had the chance, what a waste.
McLaren, oh dear.
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I'd agree this isn't good for the sport.
Rosberg was quicker than Hamilton, because Hamilton's strategy had him end up with not enough fuel....Rosberg should have been allowed to cruise past.
Webber was in front of Vettel and as is an established practice in most teams, was told to turn things down a bit to get home safely...which Vettel ignored, even though his race engineer told him to calm it on the radio. Very poor show.
Rosberg and Webber hard done by.
At least Hamilton acknowledged that on the podium.
Loved Webber's unsubtle comments on the podium.
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>>Rosberg was quicker than Hamilton, because Hamilton's strategy had him end up with not enough fuel....Rosberg should have been allowed to cruise past.<<
From what I saw and heard they were both marginal on fuel and Lewis was driving at the speed instructed rather than being slower than Nico. Nico certainly deserves a pat on the back for taking one for the team though, I did think the team could have let him slip by and I got the impression Lewis thought the same.
The Vettel/Webber thing isnt going anywhere positive, I really felt for Webber as he played the team game by doing as he was told and got burned for it. On the later interviews Webber looked like he was barely keeping it together, I really felt for the bloke.
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>> From what I saw and heard they were both marginal on fuel and Lewis was
>> driving at the speed instructed rather than being slower than Nico. Nico certainly deserves a
>> pat on the back for taking one for the team though, I did think the
>> team could have let him slip by and I got the impression Lewis thought the
>> same.
Fair enough if Rosberg was being told the same re fuel...but I got the distinct impression that he wasn't....which is why Hamilton was so reasonable...if not Hamilton would have shrugged his shoulders and said they were both in the same boat.
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>>Fair enough if Rosberg was being told the same re fuel...but I got the distinct impression that he wasn't....which is why Hamilton was so reasonable...if not Hamilton would have shrugged his shoulders and said they were both in the same boat.<<
I think it was Toto Wolff who mentioned it in interview. I dont think Lewis asked for Nico to stay behind him so as a racer I expect it was a bit like having your dad hold your hand so the big boys dont hit you even though you were up for it.
I suspect Lewis said what he said for team reasons as I would hope he is smart enough by now to have seen how corrosive such decisions can be - I wouldnt be suprised if in a later race he does the same for Nico.
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Vettel won nothing to apologise for it's a race.
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>> Vettel won nothing to apologise for it's a race.
>>
Er....Webber was in the lead, winning a race. In common with current practice in that sport, he was told to throttle off a bit, conserve the car and help guarantee a team 1,2.
His team mate chose to ignore that protocol and steamed past him.
If Webber had known in advance that Vettel was likely to do that, he could have taken actions to counter act it (we'll never know if that would or would not have been successful).
Contrast that with Rosberg's actions, stuck behind his team mate who had to conserve fuel.
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>> Vettel won nothing to apologise for it's a race.
>>
I agree. Stuff team orders.
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>> nothing to apologise for it's a race.
>>
>> I agree. Stuff team orders.
No one with a sporting bone in their body could really hold it against Vettel. We will see how the team takes it though. A race in which the first four cars are all running under team orders and another main contender retires both its cars while they are still going well isn't what a motor sport fan wants to see. But that is what motor sport is really like at top level. Not only is the team very large and complex, but it is also under the lash of money-supplying powers that be who often want to get their oar in.
Nico Rosberg was cool and so was Hamilton. Massa drove a gritty race and showed a lot of bottom to make up for Alonso's absence from lap 1.
Still hard to see the shape of the season to come though. Force India may perform better when they learn how to bolt wheels onto a car.
I enjoyed Hamilton's absent-minded wriggle through the MacLaren pit crew. So did his girlfriend it seems. She's looking better than last year.
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>> No one with a sporting bone in their body could really hold it against Vettel.
Sport, forget it. Motor racing, like football, is all about the money.
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They are still both sports ON.
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>> No one with a sporting bone in their body could really hold it against Vettel.
Bit of a bummer for the bloke who did as he was asked though.
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>> Bit of a bummer for the bloke who did as he was asked though.
>>
He didn't, he was out driven.
Aside from that it is the treachery and the backstabbing that makes F1 so fascinating.
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>>
>> >> Bit of a bummer for the bloke who did as he was asked though.
>> >>
>>
>> He didn't, he was out driven.
Not really, the two were on different strategies, One was on the team one, and one was on his own strategy.
>>
>> Aside from that it is the treachery and the backstabbing that makes F1 so fascinating.
Egos man, its all about Egos, Egos so big a normal person has no comprehension of what lengths these people will go to, the temper tantrums, the foot stamping, and as you say the treachery, skulduggery and backstabbing.
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>> Egos so big a normal person has no comprehension of what lengths these people will go to, the temper tantrums, the foot stamping, and as you say the treachery, skulduggery and backstabbing.
Speaking as a representative of the 'normal person' or what the law calls the 'reasonable man', I think I do have some memory of that sort of ego. For us though it tends to fade and mutate after the age of 12 or so. That is the essential age group of sporting heroes.
It seems to me that the Team is the problem, rather than the personality of the innocent computer-game player or racehorse or performing flea. National teams are the worst, putting the hex on their competitors and forcing innocent young runners and jumpers to poison themselves with horrible drugs and so on.
Wanna be a sportsman son? Don't even think about it FFS.
Same applies to stage, screen or gig eminence.
Wanna be a star baby? Believe me, you really really don't.
All this applies to one's nearest and dearest. Other people are free to represent, entertain and thrill us, get rich and ruin their lives.
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>>He didn't, he was out driven.<<
He wasnt, he did as he was told by the team, his employer. Vettel can do what he likes if he is a privateer, but he isnt and as a team member he sucks. If Webber sticks it to him next time, I doubt anyone will shed a tear.
Fact is, if Vettel needs Webber later in the season, will he have his back? It was a bit early in the season to do over your team mate.
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Vettel was totally out of order. "Racer" or not, they both knew the teams rules.
And Vettel did not out race Webber, infact, the fact he emerged from the final pitstop behind means he was out raced. Weber, with engine turned down and in tyre/car conservation mode was taken by surprise.
He wouldnt have looked quite the racer had he trashed his tyres and ended up not finishing, or causing an accident with his team mate..
Last edited by: PR on Sun 24 Mar 13 at 19:19
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Red Bull?
More like Red Mist.
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Lets face facts, Vettle isn't a team player. All for one and sod everyone else attitude.
It's a wonder he doesn't place a beach towel on the top step of the podium to stop anyone else claiming it as theirs.
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>>It's a wonder he doesn't place a beach towel on the top step of the podium <<
Give it time.
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I like Vettle,he doesn't need a beach towel he can afford his own beach.
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A great race, eventful but inevitably tactical, won by the greatest current driver for the greatest team. Alonso made it look like a relaxed Sunday cruise, but it can't have been really can it? Good to see Ferrari finding its form again after a bad year or two.
Our man Hamilton did well to manage a podium. He didn't have the late pace to catch the hooligan Finn driving a hooligan's bashed-up car into a very well deserved second place. He was lucky too not to be passed by Vettel whose late charge on stickies was, er, horribly quick. Nice to see young Vettel having to work for a living like everyone else. His poor teammate had another bum day.
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Yes, unlucky for Webber again, but some contributory negligence, or at least indecision, which he more or less admitted, leading to the unscheduled pit stop where the wheel wasn't properly fixed on.
Button made the best of it in fifth by all expert accounts.
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I agree with Bernie Ecclestone really that from a F1 point of view the political demonstrators against the Bahrain GP are just annoying, like the people protesting against Mrs Thatcher. Actually Bahrain isn't a savage tyranny, but it is a despotism that doesn't mess around with dissenters, normal behaviour for the region.
That's the problem really. Bahrain has the misfortune to embody in its social class system the religious schism in Islam. That tends to inflame all political argument there. Its rulers have been slow and blundering, but perhaps they are being egged on by others. I wouldn't know. But although those rulers are friends of our own great and good, I think another venue could be substituted for Bahrain on the F1 calendar.
I said much the same last year. They probably won't listen this year either.
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just to mix things up some more.:-)
Lewis Hamilton will drop five places on the grid following a gearbox change,
The 2008 world champion suffered an apparent left-rear tyre delamination at the end of final practice on Saturday morning and following an inspection the team opted to replace the gearbox before qualifying.
Hamilton becomes the third driver who will drop places
Mark Webber was given a three-place grid penalty for tangling with Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne at the previous race in China
while Sauber's Esteban Gutierrez received a five-place penalty in Shanghai for causing a collision with Force India's Adrian Sutil.
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Utterly blinding qualifying lap by Rosberg which Hamilton couldn't match. Can he keep it up tomorrow?
Ferrari looking confident for the race, cunning old pros that they are. Traces of anxiety I thought chez Vettel. But the Bulls are still in the game. Nice to see Force India doing so well, Paul di Resta quite cock-a-hoop and I think rising on his toes every few seconds like Nigel Farage... but perhaps it was just the handheld camera lurching about as they do.
The circuit, completely empty of people even in the couple of hundred VIP granstand seats near the start/finish line, with its huge brightly-coloured run off areas, looks so like a child's toy or a computer game that I had to do several double-takes thinking I was watching computer-generated images.
Is this good? Why aren't the poor Shi'ite villagers who live within reach not invited (and bussed) in free and provided with barbecued sheep and unlimited sherbets while they watch the stirring spectacle and bet camels on the outcome? Nothing much bad would happen I feel sure, and it can't reasonably be claimed that the expense would be too great. While the message sent to the world would be something of an improvement on what we have had so far.
Why don't Bernie and the Prince of Wales (or whoever) sell this as a general proposition to the Bahraini royals? They are all missing the bleeding obvious here.
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Can anyone explain the purpose of the small, apparent, air intake on the noses of McLaren and Mercedes.
Other than some, nefarious, aero device?
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Sat 20 Apr 13 at 19:49
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Yes, it is a circus and I can barely bring myself to read race reports now, let alone watch the pathetic 'races'. Stage management gone mad.
Have you seen the "Pirelli advert'' on the ever-excellent Sniffpetrol? Says it all.
If footballers were expected to play part of every match with their bootlaces tied together there would be a bit of an outcry, wouldn't there?
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Mon 13 May 13 at 15:29
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>> GP? Its really is now just a circus Bernie!
>> If it is not sorted soon then I will be off. :-(
Beat you to it, given up watching it.
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>> given up watching it.
Well I haven't. Not at all keen on this tyre carp or the general over-regulation of the formula. Apparently they were going slower than the GP2 cars at Barcelona owing to these pre-shredded Pirellis. What a pain... but all things pass.
Alonso and Raikkonen are the two ace drivers anyway, so the result was correct. Button did well, gained 9 places I think. Mercedes are hugely quick but can't win races because they can't make the rubber last. Chassis tuning, or the drivers? Both perhaps.
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>> Well I haven't. Not at all keen on this tyre carp or the general over-regulation
>> of the formula. Apparently they were going slower than the GP2 cars at Barcelona owing
>> to these pre-shredded Pirellis. What a pain... but all things pass.
>>
>> Alonso and Raikkonen are the two ace drivers anyway, so the result was correct. Button
>> did well, gained 9 places I think. Mercedes are hugely quick but can't win races
>> because they can't make the rubber last. Chassis tuning, or the drivers? Both perhaps.
>>
I'm sort of in agreement with you AC...but...the problem seems to be that a driver like Button who is very smooth and good to his tyres...cannot get enough heat in them, so he still does badly.
Then more recently, a driver like Hamilton who'll wring the neck of his car ...and his tyres...has to drive like Miss Daisy to even make it to the end.
It seems to be a bit of a lottery. Even Alonso who won, has moaned about it.
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>> If it is not sorted soon then I will be off. :-(
Pirelli is to change the tyres it supplies to Formula 1 starting at the Canadian Grand Prix next month.
The move comes after complaints that their fragile nature has made tyre-management too important.
Pirelli hope the changes mean drivers do not have to stop more than three times in races.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22523596
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All this fuss after the Spanish GP re tyres is a PR triumph for Redbull. Interesting article here from Gary Anderson...
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884
Key point is:
2012 - Winner (Vettel) 4 pit stops, total of 77 pit stops - Redbull on tyres: Silent
2013 - Winner (Alonso) 4 pit stops, total of 79 pit stops - Redbull on tyres: Extremely noisy*
*We cant race, its no longer a sport etc...
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>> All this fuss after the Spanish GP re tyres is a PR triumph for Redbull.
>> Interesting article here from Gary Anderson...
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884
>>
>> Key point is:
>>
>> 2012 - Winner (Vettel) 4 pit stops, total of 77 pit stops - Redbull on
>> tyres: Silent
>> 2013 - Winner (Alonso) 4 pit stops, total of 79 pit stops - Redbull on
>> tyres: Extremely noisy*
>>
>> *We cant race, its no longer a sport etc...
Alonso also complained about the tyres and he won.
If this has been orchestrated by Red Bull, it has backfired. According to Anderson, with a bit of reading between the lines, only the rear tyres are likely to be toughened up, as much to prevent the treads coming off as anything else, but it should make them more durable. The main beneficiary among the big teams will be Maclaren, whose car is said to be 'rear tyre limited' whereas the others had more problems with the fronts.
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From 2015 McLaren will have their engines supplied by Honda. A return to glory days?
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Let's hope so. As long as it isn't an oiler...
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Whatever next, drivers trying to overtake in a GP - they'll be distracting the cameras from Cameron Diaz & Co.
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DC says " Monaco Grand Prix was rubbish"
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22678909
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A reminder that motorsport is dangerous... a driver has died in an accident this year:
www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jun/22/danish-allen-simonsen-killed-le-mans
How sad. He knew the risks but it's easy to forget how easy it is for an accident to be fatal. And it was only 9 minutes into the race (lap 4).
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 22 Jun 13 at 18:52
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Not one of the best races due to the incident above, and also a plethora of over-long yellow flags. but Audi notched up yet another victory. Toyota will be back with a better challenge next year.
Glad I didn't go this year, the weather looked pretty crap for camping...
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25 minutes in, third of the laps completed. three total sudden failures so far, all left rear. Looks like sidewalls damaged by kerbs.
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Three left rear tyre failures so far in the British GP, including that of Hamilton who was leading at the time.
F1 should be using the best tyres for the job, not rubbish ones to make it more "interesting".
At least the resultant safety car gives something back to Hamilton, Massa & Vergne who have so far suffered the failures.
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>> F1 should be using the best tyres for the job, not rubbish ones to make
>> it more "interesting".
They're not using Nankangs are they?
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No.
I think Pirelli might have subbed it to Linglong.
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I'm tyred of this race already.
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4th tyre gone. Left rear again.
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good 8 lap sprint race in progress!
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Interesting comment from Brawn - after apparently committing to finishing without a third stop, and after reported vibration from his left rear tyre, Rosberg was able to stop under the safety car. Brawn said the tyre they took off was "on its way".
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 30 Jun 13 at 15:13
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On BBC just had an excellent first hand view of the kerb on turn 4, it has a very sharp raised edge on one of the concrete blocks.
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Saw that. Looked as if it was intended that way. Wonder if that's unusual. Didn't look sensible.
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>> Saw that. Looked as if it was intended that way.
I didn't get that impression, looked to me like it ( the block) had heaved up over time, or its neighbour block had sunk, either way a concrete corner was extant. Looks like it had been that way for some time.
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Watch it again. There's a succession of them, they seem to be stepped, and the concrete inside them is graded, leaving the corner of each step proud.
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A the "toothed" type, didnt see all them. Thats pretty common.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 30 Jun 13 at 16:40
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edit, the "steps" or "teeth" are normally butted by a concrete shoulder down one side to prevent corners being extant.
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There are stepped kerbs on most tracks, stepped to encourage the drivers to stay off them.
Surely the problem is that if you make it easier to cut the corner (by putting concrete inside the kerbs) the drivers will cut corners more, if there was grass, especially wet grass, there then they would not be cutting the corner, they would stay on the track.
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>> putting concrete inside the kerbs) the drivers will cut corners more, if there was grass,
>> especially wet grass, there then they would not be cutting the corner, they would stay
>> on the track.
Nah the reason the concrete is there is because the drivers cut the corner and threw the grass and mud everywhere.
Even if you put bollards up they last about two laps and then get flattened. The only way to keep a racing drivers 4 wheels all on the track at the same time, is to put up walls. Even then they will lean on it.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 1 Jul 13 at 08:39
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From the BBC web site
1641: British Grand Prix winner Nico Rosberg is under investigation for allegedly not slowing for yellow flags in today's race at Silverstone, the FIA has announced.
1646: Nico Rosberg and a Mercedes representative are reporting to the stewards right about now. Incident relates to Rosberg 'appearing to not slow for yellow flags in turns three to five at 1406 BST.
1643: Andrew Benson, Chief F1 writer at Silverstone
"If he [Rosberg] is found guilty, that's a race-losing penalty."
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Nico Rosberg has escaped with a reprimand for speeding under yellows. His race win stands.
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Common sense prevails then. Although the alternative of Webber getting a golden goodbye would have been fine by me.
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Visitors today so had to snatch an occasional look at the race and make do with that. Seems to have been busy and eventful, with only one retirement I think. Did Vettel predict it somehow? He looked sulky and unhappy yesterday during qualifying.
Hamilton did very well to make up so much ground after his early puncture.
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Hamilton was lucky there was at least one safety car early in the race. Meant he caught up with the field and then had a chance to show us how good he is at overtaking.
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>> Hamilton was lucky there was at least one safety car early in the race. Meant
>> he caught up with the field and then had a chance to show us how
>> good he is at overtaking.
True.
I wouldn't put it past the FIA to throw in safety cars for entertainment value either, having wilfully imposed crappy tyres for the same purpose.
I wonder if the benefits of Pirelli's F1 tyre development will find their way into road cars. A couple of pit stops on the way to work would be real progress.
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>>I wonder if the benefits of Pirelli's F1 tyre development will find their way into road cars.
Too late for me.
Special Pirelli tyres were developed for the Jaguar X type.
Many users are not impressed ( including me) so fit other brands.
Some users report the tyre wall failing :-(
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stop driving over the kerbs then.
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>> stop driving over the kerbs then.
>>
I have been avoiding peasants :-)
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oooooooooo, Interesting.
Race drivers can now take part in the test at Silverstone as long as they are conducting tyre development.
The test will be held on 17-19 July.
www.silverstone.co.uk/events/f1-young-drivers-test/#
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>> oooooooooo, Interesting.
>>
>> Race drivers can now take part in the test at Silverstone as long as they
>> are conducting tyre development.
>>
>> The test will be held on 17-19 July.
>>
>> www.silverstone.co.uk/events/f1-young-drivers-test/#
>>
Well tempted to punt up there for that...it used to be free. Bit of a hike for me though..:-(
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Years ago, we switched from Pirellis on my wife's Focus. No delamination.................. but they were soooooooo noisy!
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>> >> stop driving over the kerbs then.
>> >>
>> I have been avoiding peasants :-)
>>
Peasants cause less damage to tyre walls than kerbs.
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I've had Pirelli P6000's on my car for the whole 11 years I've owned it and consider them good tyres...I swapped wifey's car to them, from P-Zeros, about 4 years ago. I consider them to have good all round performance.
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>> I've had Pirelli P6000's on my car for the whole 11 years I've owned it
>> and consider them good tyres..
Then it's time they were changed for new ones. The rubber perishes after a number of years.
I am surprised that being an ex-copper you didn't know that!
;-0
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>> Then it's time they were changed for new ones. The rubber perishes after a number
>> of years.
>>
>> I am surprised that being an ex-copper you didn't know that!
>>
Yes...various sets of the same type of tyre, changed when they get down to 2.0 - 2.5mm
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I went to start the ball rolling on getting the front tyres on my car replaced. I don't think Pirelli's are on the list preferred by the lease company. Shockingly the fronts have lasted 13,000 miles! Now down to 2mm. They probably would have lasted longer if I'd got the 140PS version - in the damp it is quite easy to spin the fronts if you wanted to in mine.
And no doubt the tyre place will break at least one of the tyre valves in the process.
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Mick Fleetwood talking about the history of 'The Chain' on The One Show last night (which was actually a 'best of' so apologies if this has been posted before):
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b037bk3n/The_One_Show_Best_of_Britain_Series_3_Episode_1/
starts at 6:25, less than 5 mins
In the unlikely event anyone doesn't know the connection between this and F1, it's a part of this track which is used as the BBC F1 coverage theme tune.
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According to the article he allegedly bribed the German chappy because he didn't want HMRC to be given any reason to investigate him. I hope someone high up is going through his returns with a fine tooth comb now.
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>> According to the article he allegedly bribed the German chappy because he didn't want HMRC
>> to be given any reason to investigate him. I hope someone high up is going
>> through his returns with a fine tooth comb now.
>>
Somewhat weak excuse wasn't it.
Either he's:
1 - bribed the German official
2 - has got things to hide with HMRC and paid off the German blackmailer to keep things quiet
3 - hasn't got anything to hide and has rolled over to a blackmailer for £43m most easily.
Now let me think. Is no.3 likely?....No, it isn't, not by a long shot.
I'll go for no. 1 and an early plea bargain or Guilty plea
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Just watched the recorded highlights from the BBC.
Best race for a while, Vettel only 3rd!
Nice win for Lewis and another solid performance from the ice man who came second. Some brilliant stuff from Grosjean but he couldn't quite stay out of the wars.
Vettel said in interview he would prefer Kimi to Fernando as a replacement for Webber. I'd really like to see that wish come true, but I think either would give Vettel a run.
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Interesting and eventful, and the right man won of course. Despite what today's comic called his 'broken heart' (too much information if you ask me).
Driver of the day was the taciturn Finn, with Grosjean a contender and damn quick but still a bit impulsive. Button did well too, running some doughty interference to keep Vettel out of Lewis Hamilton's hair...
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Malaysian GP - Westpig
