***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE and gallop along to Volume 3 *****
Further discussion on the horse/beef saga.
Volume 1
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Feb 13 at 19:46
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Schools now,,,
Lancashire County Council has confirmed that horsemeat has been found in cottage pies delivered to 47 schools.
It comes as Whitbread pub and restaurant company says horsemeat has been found in its beef lasagne and burgers.
The products were sold in Premier Inn, Brewers Fayre, Beefeater Grill and Table Table.
tinyurl.com/ab7sf9b
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The clues have been around a long time at Whitbread
tinyurl.com/cqqua9a and tinyurl.com/c9e2mbl
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Am I correct that the issue is the traceability of the meat, not that it is necessarily horse?
I realise that there is a description issue, but there's nothing inherently wrong with horse meat is there?
Because looking at the media I'm not sure people are clear what they're outraged about. If you're eating burgers, sausages and kebabs, all of which I eat, its not like you're concerned with what *exactly* you're eating in the first place.
And I get the annoyance of wanting to buy cow and ending up with horse, but that's not exactly a gripping issue.
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>> Am I correct that the issue is the traceability of the meat, not that it
>> is necessarily horse?
Aside from seperating fact from political and media background noise there seem to be at least three issues albeit with overlap.
Firstly as you say, description. Personally I don't mind eating horse. I'd had it in France when it's been on the menu. Others however really don't want to. And as well as horse we've had pork in products labelled beef. Real implications there for at least two religious groups.
Secondly there's the question of horsey drugs, so called 'bute', which although unlikely to be harmful in concentrations found has no zero risk level and meat from horses thus treated is forbidden to enter the foodchain.
Thirdly, and linked with number two is traceability. It seems that the horse 'passport' which should allow Dobbin to be traced from stable to chilled cabinet is fatally undermined.
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I just object to paying for beef and getting horsemeat.
It's fraud.
The retailers who defraud us - or rather their directors - are defrauding consumers by their actions.
We persecute and jail fraudsters.
That would solve the problem.. (as the US did with price fixing.. Directors go to jail. Period)
And I suspect anyone who bought meat online and got horse would be covered by the Distance Selling regulations...
Last edited by: madf on Fri 15 Feb 13 at 15:29
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>> We persecute and jail fraudsters.
>>
>> That would solve the problem
Err no. The fraudsters are not in the uk, there is eff all we can do them. Wont stop them anyway, jail never stopped nothing where easy money is concerned.
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>> >> We persecute and jail fraudsters.
>> >>
>> >> That would solve the problem
>>
>> Err no. The fraudsters are not in the uk, there is eff all we can
>> do them. Wont stop them anyway, jail never stopped nothing where easy money is concerned.
>>
>>
You miss my point completely (as I would expect)
Tesco had no idea who their suppliers were. They had a list of approved suppliers of meat and Comigel did not use them Tesco never checked!
My point is simply this : the reason why we are getting horsemeat is that the retailers did not check. It is THEIR responsibility to describe what they sell.
Tesco are the world's third biggest retailer. They had NO IDEA.
A gross abdication of responsibility...
Once a few Directors are jailed, they will check..
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>> You miss my point completely (as I would expect)
because you said something else. Never mentioned tesco directors. And they DONT have an approved list of meat suppliers, merely manufacturers of prepared food.
>Once a few Directors are jailed, they will check
Oh what like the Directors of Netwrok rail will never let another fatal accident happen on the railways due to poor maintenance.
get real
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 15 Feb 13 at 15:45
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>> >> You miss my point completely (as I would expect)
>>
>> because you said something else. Never mentioned tesco directors. And they DONT have an approved
>> list of meat suppliers, merely manufacturers of prepared food.
>>
Tesco Group technical director Tim Smith said: "The frozen Everyday Value Spaghetti Bolognese should contain only Irish beef from our approved suppliers.
The source of the horsemeat is still under investigation by the relevant authorities.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21418342
he agency confirmed that in addition to the arrest of the owner of a West Yorkshire slaughterhouse and Welsh meat processing company yesterday, three other "food companies" have been raided by officials.
Details of the raids came as the agency disclosed that horse meat has been found in one in 75 beef products on sale in British retailers.
The agency also said it is considering prosecuting retailers and food manufacturing companies for mislabelling beef products that contained horse meat.
tinyurl.com/9wo4sfb
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>> Tesco Group technical director Tim Smith said: "The frozen Everyday Value Spaghetti Bolognese should contain
>> only Irish beef from our approved suppliers.
>> The source of the horsemeat is still under investigation by the relevant authorities.
>>
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21418342
They dont have approved meat suppliers merely prepared meal suppliers. he is misleading you.
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>>
>> They dont have approved meat suppliers merely prepared meal suppliers. he is misleading you.
>>
Im not sure thats the case for own label products, though it might be for branded ones. I have, in the past, done work for suppliers of prepared fresh own label produce to Tesco. It was certainly the case then that Tesco woild only allow manufacturers to use suppliers that had been approve by Tesco, and had (in theory...) met Tescos standards. The supplier would be charged for the audit to ensure this was so, and the manufacturer would be charged for the audit of their facility. I can't imagine that they treat the suppliers of own label ready meals or burgers any differently, though it seems to be just another way of extracting cash from suppliers and their suppy base if its not actually working ;-)
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>>
>> >>
>> >> They dont have approved meat suppliers merely prepared meal suppliers. he is misleading you.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> Im not sure thats the case for own label products, though it might be for
>> branded ones. I have, in the past, done work for suppliers of prepared fresh own
>> label produce to Tesco. It was certainly the case then that Tesco woild only allow
>> manufacturers to use suppliers that had been approve by Tesco, and had (in theory...) met
>> Tescos standards.
Thats only for fresh produce, prepared meals that are then flash chilled or deep frozen are only specified by ingredients and price.
Nothing to do with standards, its all down to price as you rightly say. Which is why we are here where we are
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Wow, they're missing a trick then! Think how many extra 'audits' they could charge for based on the number of ingredients in some of these things...
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>>Once a few Directors are jailed, they will check..
Trouble is, you cannot just jail them because it happened. There is no absolute liability for the Director(s).
So unless you can show negligence, carelessness, intent or unreasonableness then it won;t happen.
>> It is THEIR responsibility to describe what they sell.
They are allowed to take others word for it reasonably. If you bought a can of beans from Tesco, sold it in your Cafe and killed someone because it turned out it was full of arsenic, would you see that as your fault?
Its not the fault of Tesco, although no doubt they will change things so that there is even less chance of it happening again. Of course then we will hear more of people complaining about how Tesco dictate to their suppliers.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 15 Feb 13 at 16:27
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>> And I suspect anyone who bought meat online and got horse would be covered by
>> the Distance Selling regulations...
>>
But some horses just wont go the distance.
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>> Thirdly, and linked with number two is traceability. It seems that the horse 'passport' which
>> should allow Dobbin to be traced from stable to chilled cabinet is fatally undermined.
Almost, its maisy the moo cows passport describing journey from daisies to my plate that is undermined.
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>> Almost, its maisy the moo cows passport describing journey from daisies to my plate that
>> is undermined.
>>
That too. Reports in today's paper focus on the market in horses killed in this country but sent to France or wherever for eating.
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>>And as well as horse we've had pork in products labelled beef. Real implications there for at
>>least two religious groups.
Just what I'd expect a po-faced PC lefty to say (sorry Bromp, I'm not actually getting at you, or not really, but that is just politically correct drivel!). There is no implication whatsoever for the religious groups. Although pork isn't halal/kosher, nor is beef UNLESS it has been slaughtered in approved fashion. As it won't have been, they shouldn't be eating the beef burgers either.
>>[bute] has no zero risk level
Really? I don't think that's true either. I've not been into great detail on this, but my understanding is that it's not *certain* that there's any risk with bute to humans.
It's one of those vanishingly small risks. Each of these has to be true:
That your burgers contain horse;
That the horse happened to have been treated with bute;
That the bute happens to be in the meat in a measurable concentration (on the grounds that many dobbins are minced up together); and
That bute happens to be bad for humans.
I'd take the risk. Except I don't buy the sort of sausages that are made from sawdust, and I don't buy manufactured lasagne...
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Don't know about others but I am mindful of the BSE problem. That was pretty serious and we were lucky as it seems to have turned out that the incidence of prion disease resulting is fairly small.
The shocking thing was that we were repeatedly told that the beef was safe. The basis of that statement was there was at the time no evidence of transmissibility to humans.
Now you didn't need to be a brain surgeon to see the flaw in that reasoning. The same applies to recent assurances that there is no health hazard.
"The UK's Environment Secretary Owen Paterson has stressed that "nothing seen so far presented a health risk" and that he would have "no hesitation at all" about eating recalled products."
Well he damn well should hesitate. It's a very similar scenario. We have gone from thinking that we have control of what is in food to knowing that we do not. If a dishonest supplier somewhere in the chain is prepared to label horsemeat as beef, why should we assume he has scruples enough to make sure it is fit to eat, or not to include other undeclared ingredients?
I'm pleased to say we have chucked nothing out of the fridge or freezer, but that's mainly because I assume burgers are made with muck anyway, and we mostly prepare our own food.
My weakness is pork sausages, I buy posh ones, damn the expense, and hope for the best. Having just bought a Kenwood Chef to make my bread for the boss's birthday, I might even get the mincer & sausage attachment and make those too.
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>> Don't know about others but I am mindful of the BSE problem. That was pretty
>> serious and we were lucky as it seems to have turned out that the incidence
>> of prion disease resulting is fairly small.
>>
>> The shocking thing was that we were repeatedly told that the beef was safe. The
>> basis of that statement was there was at the time no evidence of transmissibility to
>> humans.
>>
>> Now you didn't need to be a brain surgeon to see the flaw in that
>> reasoning.
No you don't need to be a brain surgeon to see the flaw in that reasoning. As 'the incidence of prion disease resulting is 'fairly' i.e. vanishingly 'small' when you write 'that was pretty serious' you are writing as though you have BSE!
It's not shocking that we were repeatedly told that the beef was safe because 'it seems to have turned out that the incidence of prion disease resulting is fairly small.' i.e. the beef was essentially safe.
"In 2011 there were two new diagnosis of vCJD and five deaths. One of the new diagnoses related
to a death in 2008. This brings the total number of cases reported in the UK to 176 of whom all
176 have died." www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/documents/cjdq72.pdf
Is it worth the additional expense of not feeding beef to cattle to save 176 lives over a 20(?) year period? I don't think so. Not when the world is full of starving people.
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im sticking to mushrooms , kept in the dark and fed bullshine..
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>>you are writing as though you have BSE!
Thanks for your diagnosis Mapmaker, I'll get a second opinion.
And congratulations, your hindsight is nearly perfect ;-)
Essentially we were encouraged to believe that BSE posed no problem for humans. There was no sound basis for that statement, whether or not it was true, which couldn't be known. Saying it was a despicable attempt to deceive the public, in my opinion at the time.
It proved untrue. I didn't know that would happen, but I did know that absence of evidence of a connection wasn't proof.
When BSE was connected to vCJD, there was great concern that there might be thousands of victims - the incubation period and infection rates being unknown. An estimate of 2,000+ cases was given IIRC with the rider that there was great uncertainty about that. The incubation period was known to be relatively long, with the first case of what was identified as vCJD appearing in 1994.
Happily that turned out not to be the case.
Lord knows how many cases there would be if we hadn't stopped feeding cows to cows. Never mind the BSE itself, and the fact that no country in the world would be accepting British beef.
Incidentally there was a lasting effect on the blood service. It no longer uses plasma from UK donors, and removes the white cells, to minimise transmission risk of prion disease.
I don't think many people would agree with you that it wasn't worth doing anything about it. Or that not doing would have had the slightest effect on reducing the number of starving people other than by giving them vCJD.
If woolly thinking is a sign of BSE then maybe you need a check too!
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This brings the total number of cases reported in the UK to 176 of whom all
176 have died."
Blimey you have a better prognosis dogging down the local cottaging spot with George Michael
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I don't mind eating horse at all, especially if it is 1/5th the price of beef, as has been reported. I do however object to paying beef prices for horse, as has been the case. Nice profit for many people in the supply chain, including the retailer.
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>> >>you are writing as though you have BSE!
>>
>> Thanks for your diagnosis Mapmaker, I'll get a second opinion.
>>
>
Get a second opinion from a brain surgeon. Only one small snag, of course:)
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Horse goes into a club and the doorman says you can't come in here without a tie
Horse goes to the boot of the car, finds a pair off jump leads ties them round his neck goes back to the club and says to the doorman is this okay.
Doorman says yes you can come in, but don't start anything.
[yawn!]
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Same horse walked into another bar - Barman asks "Hey, what's with the long face ?"
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Then the horse's friend, a Panda Bear followed him in, greeted him and said to the barman..
" a Gin and ...... ...... .......... .............. ........... ............. ......... ........ tonic please."
The Barman said, "why the big paws?"
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 16 Feb 13 at 16:42
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A White Horse goes into a bar and asks for a scotch.
The barman says: "We have a scotch named after you, you know?"
"Why would they need a plasterer?" asks the horse.
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>>"Why would they need a plasterer?" asks the horse.
I'm sorry Ian, I have agonized over it, and I know that I'm either going to realize as soon as I've posted this, or forever be ridiculed; but I don't get it.
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I thought it was just me.
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Plastering is what the horse does for a living - keep up:)
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Still doesn't make sense if you ask me.
shouldn't it be something like
"A white horse walks into a bar and says "can i have a glass of whisky please ?"
The barman says," we have one named after you !"
The horse says " What ERIC !""
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I had a burger the other day and it gave me the trots.
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damn, sorry, wrong punchline!
A duck walks into a bar, and orders a sandwich and a pint of guiness. Then the duck walks to the dartboard, picks up a dart in his beak, and flings it at the board, scoring a double top.
the barman is amazed - this is after all a talking duck!
He tells the duck that there is a circus in town, and maybe the duck should consider going along there to look for a job.
The duck says 'What? Eric?"
Oh dear, I appear to have confused the punchlines.
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There are 2 hens in Guinness, m8.
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... and it has a capital GeeGee?
Two hens walk into a library, and approach the shelves.
One takes a novel, and shows its friend. 'bookbookbook'.
The librarian is a frog - looks at the book, and says 'reddit'
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>> Same horse walked into another bar
Different horse, different bar
Barman says "we don't serve food in here"
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Shortly afterwards, the horse's best friend, a giraffe, comes in and promptly lays down on the floor.
Barman says to the the horse, "Sorry mate but you can't leave that lyin' there..."
Horse thinks about it for a moment and replies, "But he's not a lion he's a giraffe.."
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A horse walks into a bar.
"Too late," says the bartender, "we're joking about the pope now."
"He's right," sighs Richard III
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>> A horse walks into a bar.
>> "Too late," says the bartender, "we're joking about the pope now."
>> "He's right," sighs Richard III
"Too late" says the Bartender, "we are talking about meteors now"
"Dont look at me" says the pontiff "I got altzhiemers, forgot it was coming"
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Man goes into a cafe in Manchester and there's a sign on the counter.
"A cup of tea, a pie and a few kind words £1"
The man orders a cup of tea and a pie ands says to the woman behind the counter. "all right then what about the kind words ?"
"I wouldn't eat the pie" she says
Frank Dobson discussing the horse meat scandal on "The week in Westminster" earlier today.
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I think he spoke very well, in a way that a lot of out of office politicians often do, why can't they find the backbone to speak like that when they hold office. Hopefully buried bad news that is the mid-Staffs NHS scandal will lead to the downfall of the odious Jeremy Hunt....
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>> Hopefully buried bad news that is the mid-Staffs NHS scandal will lead
>> to the downfall of the odious Jeremy Hunt....
Was he there?
I think the odious David Nicholson is the one who needs to resign, having been in charge of mid-Staffs during the scandal and having moved almost directly to being CEO of the NHS.
He doesn't seem to think it's his responsibility at all.
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You're right. Hunt has now written to them....so strong.
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Only the NHS- where accountability exists in terms of targets - but not in terms of management incompetence - can the man responsible for the management of an organisation which has effectively killed hundreds of people - be promoted.
I suspect IF when he goes - as his credibility is now shot with his customers - the floodgates will open and we will discover what abuses have been tolerated.
One thing is for sure if the NHS was in private ownership Sir David would now rest in jail...
And the speed with which the BBC rushed on to cover the beef/horse scandal and dropped the NHS one shows where their loyalties lie.
Of course public ownership means the managers can do no wrong. After all when the nuclear power industry was publicly owned, its costs were hidden and its appallingsafety indifference to public health would have ended with jail for the senior managers.
Contrast the speed of the beef scandal - where the results of tests have been published as they occur - with the near decade that the Mid Staffs scandal has taken to be fully exposed.
Also see Hillsborough where public incompetence was hidden by a concerted program of lies.
The UK Establishment no longer represents the electorate's best needs - if it ever did. It's all about jobs for the connected and no responsibility.
See also MPs. (who act like criminals)
I can see a slow revolution building.
Last edited by: madf on Sat 16 Feb 13 at 18:36
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>> I can see a slow revolution building.
>>
And not before time. It needs to happen or they'll never be substantial change.
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>> One thing is for sure if the NHS was in private ownership Sir David would
>> now rest in jail...
>
Where do you keep getting this "they would have been in jail" rubbish.
Do you have any evidence of any senior management being jailed for "failures"?
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Senior management is moved sideways or promoted in my experience.
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>>
>> >> One thing is for sure if the NHS was in private ownership Sir David
>> would
>> >> now rest in jail...
>> >
>> Where do you keep getting this "they would have been in jail" rubbish.
>>
>> Do you have any evidence of any senior management being jailed for "failures"?
>>
Silly question.. and a relevant reply..
Reports that Kim Knoote, manager of Taywood House for the learning disabled in Great Yarmouth in Norfolk, England, has been sentenced to jail for the abuse and neglect of the people in her care. Reaction of the Commission for Social Care Inspection to the jail sentence; Negative actions of Knoote that earned the manager the jail sentence.
tinyurl.com/cw59us7
"Yesterday a judge at Liverpool Crown Court accused Bupa of putting 'financial interests to fill beds' above the care of its patients as he sentenced the manager of the home, Karen Southern, 52, for wilful neglect.
tinyurl.com/btwr8qm
Surprisingly enough there are precedents ,.. which is why the NHS cover everything up.....
Last edited by: madf on Sun 17 Feb 13 at 10:05
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Local councils are to blame for driving down food quality with cheap food contracts for schools and hospitals, the boss of Iceland has said.
Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr show, Malcolm Walker said the "problem really lies" with councils buying food from the poorly supplied catering industry.
Retailers should not be blamed for the horsemeat crisis, Mr Walker added.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21490004
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who's a clever retailer then - blame the customer.
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they are not senior management or regional directors.
again i say, where have you got evidence of previous senior management being jailed?
If they cant jail anyone senior at Railtrack for Potters bar, or GreyRigg, you got no hope!
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it seems the scandal knows no bounds, apparently some products at B&Q have laminit
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That is funny zookeeper stop horsing about.
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Good Mat cartoon in the DT yesterday "Traces of food found at fashion show".
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Nay Lad!
Tesco say they're out of stock on burgers but they've got a fresh delivery coming in at 10 to 1.
HMV gift cards now being accepted at Tesco. Just tell them HMV stands for Horse Meat Voucher.
.**********
To eat or not to eat a Tesco burger?..........That is equestrian.
If you think Tesco's horse burgers are bad, you should try their quarter pandas.
Tesco are giving treble points on your Clubcard for all burgers and petrol, starting Monday. The deal is called ‘Only Fuel and Horses’.
It turns out that the horses were molested before they were turned into burgers. The police are asking anyone who knew Jimmy Saddle to come
forward.
Anyone know what I can do with 100 boxes of Tesco burgers I've been saddled with?
Just got a batch of 200 Tesco beef burgers cheap, it only cost me a pony.
Prices are going through the hoof in my area.
New kids food found in budget supermarket ……..My Lidl pony.
Had a Tesco burger the other day but it gave me the trots.
Tesco are expecting burger sales to go down initally......but not furlong.
Apparently they've now refused to name their mane supplier.
Tesco PR department are having a bad mare day!
Tesco scored highly in a recent Gallop Poll.
Tesco Burgers - low in fat - high in Shergar.
I've just checked the sell by date on my Tesco burgers and they're off.
It's very stressful working on the meat counter at Tesco. Sometimes it seems like I'm flogging a dead horse.
I had a burger last night and when I woke up this morning I still had a bit between my teeth.
The girl in McDonalds asked me what I wanted on my burger. I said, "Five pounds each way."
Despite the recent controversy, Tesco burger sales remain stable.
Traces of zebra have been found in Tesco bar codes.
Linda McCartney Sausages are now caught up in the scandal. Some have been found to contain traces of uniquorn.
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I feel ill.
And it's Shergar coming up on the inside,.....
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"Don't throw away the contaminated meat, we'll have it for the homeless" says The Mustard Tree homeless charity.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/mustard-tree-slammed-supermarkets-throwing-1328233
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Birds Eye has withdrawn three beef ready meals from supermarkets in the UK and Ireland as a precaution after horse DNA was found in a product in Belgium.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21543158#
Birds Eye said its filly con carne had tested positive for 2% horse DNA.
The company said as a precautionary measure in the UK and Ireland it would clear its Traditional Spaghetti Bologneighs 340g, Shepherd's Pie 400g and Beef Lasagne 400g from the supermarkets. It will also clear the chilli from shelves in Belgium.
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Best thing not to touch this stuff.If in doubt don't buy.These ready meals have lost all credebility like bying a cat in the bag.
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Or continue eating them knowing that they have probably been in the ingredients for a long while and its not killed you yet.
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I don't eat ready meals Bobby very simple to make a meal from fresh products.
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>> I don't eat ready meals Bobby very simple to make a meal from fresh products.
>>
How do you know the fresh products are what they say they are? Do you slaughter your own animals?
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>> >> I don't eat ready meals Bobby very simple to make a meal from fresh
>> products.
>> >>
>>
>> How do you know the fresh products are what they say they are? Do you
>> slaughter your own animals?
There's a lot of homemade/"fresh food" snobbery. There were recently a few articles about ready meal being healthier than TV chef suggested meals, but I can remember reading many years ago that people who eat ready meals are, on average, a healthier weight than those who eat home-cooked food. All comes down to portion control.
Of course, you can cook small portions yourself, but on the whole ready meals are dismissed a bit too easily as being fundamentally unhealthy.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 22 Feb 13 at 18:56
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>> like buying a cat in the bag.
Is that a Dutch proverb? Very good.
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>> >> like buying a cat in the bag.
>>
>> Is that a Dutch proverb? Very good.
Is just the European equivalent of pig in a poke...
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>> European equivalent of pig in a poke...
Yes. But only Europeans eat pigs normally. They only eat cats in times of famine. A pig in a poke may be a worthless cat. That's the point of the expression.
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>> Yes. But only Europeans eat pigs normally. They only eat cats in times of famine.
>> A pig in a poke may be a worthless cat. That's the point of the
>> expression.
Er...if you mean that the "Cat" version describes what's actually in the bag and the "Pig" version describes what's meant to be in the bag, then yes.
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I thought buying a pig in a poke meant buying it without inspecting it properly, so it might turn out to be an ancient beast tough as hell.
Cat in a bag suggests that the "pig" wasn't even a pig at all.
Very apposite - like buying a cow in a horse trailer without looking at it :)
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Sky News: missing US tourist found dead in Turkey.
Kind of overshadows the horse-meat found in burger stories eh?
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Why should a dead gringo in Turkey overshadow the threat to our guts? Eh? Eh? Cobblers. People are found dead everywhere every day.
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>> Sky News: missing US tourist found dead in Turkey.
>> Kind of overshadows the horse-meat found in burger stories eh?
>>>> Why should a dead gringo in Turkey overshadow the threat to our guts? Eh? Eh?
>>>> Cobblers. People are found dead everywhere every day.
Oh dear...AC will be embarrassed when he sobers up in the morning...tut, tut ;)
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Fri 22 Feb 13 at 23:24
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>Sky News: missing US tourist found dead in Turkey.
Bernard Matthews will be mortified.
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>> >Sky News: missing US tourist found dead in Turkey.
>>
>> Bernard Matthews will be mortified.
Now I know whats in the Aldi three bird roast.
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According to Brewer, the origin of the phrase "A pig in a poke" comes from swindling someone when selling them a suckling-pig. The practice was to put the pig into a sack (or "poke"), and the swindlers put a cat in it instead of the pig.
If the intended victim opened the bag before he was supposed to, then he literally "let the cat out of the bag".
(P.S. The word "pocket" (small bag) is derived from "poke".)
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Now the Army has horses - going back to the 1800s?
tinyurl.com/a6hsx5p
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I see horse meat has just been discovered in six tonnes of so called mincemeat, including beef lasagne, at a plant near Bologna in Italy.
www.thejournal.ie/horsemeat-italy-france-806540-Feb2013/
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Yesterday I got some stewing steak from Tesco. Not organic but ordinaire, meat being so dear these days. It looked like beef, well marbled, and herself casseroled it with some wine and the odd vegetable. It was very nice.
But my youngest daughter who is here at the moment wouldn't consider eating it. She isn't a Vegan any more and has progressed from only being able to eat venison or pheasant, but still refuses to eat meat that might have been 'factory farmed' with the animals kept indoors and fed on fodder instead of being allowed to graze and wander the hills. She says she eats a lot of kangaroo in Australia. Oddly enough I didn't fancy the idea and never ordered roo when we visited her there, although some might well have found its way into some of the meat pies the Aussies (and I) like so much.
Roo is supposed to be very healthy meat, and the creatures themselves are apparently kinder to the arid Australian landscape because their feet don't cut up the surface as sheep and cattle hooves do. It is even being proposed that no farming of sheep or cattle be allowed there and the roo, who is not a threatened species, be allowed to proliferate and hunted for meat. Big farmers won't like that of course, but it could conceivably happen because Australians take eco stuff very seriously given the apparently fragile nature of their country's ecology.
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Meat is meat and as long its not full of chemical concortions anything is edible.
I would eat Kangeroo might make me jump do>;) Diana is looking at me with discust she is vegetarion has been for years.
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I recall eating ostrich meat in South Africa and enjoying it. Very low fat levels.
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>> I recall eating ostrich meat in South Africa and enjoying it. Very low fat levels.
>>
Similarly bison is low in fat and very tasty, only seen them in america. Makes a very nice burger.
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Kangaroo and ostrich acquired a market in the UK during the BSE shenanigans and appeared in the big supermarkets. Went again after crisis was over or forgotten.
Some warned that roo had its own dangers as progress from being shot to being chilled was slow and in temps of 30+ with flies etc all around.
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>> with flies etc all around.
>>
Ostriches can't fly.
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I have eaten curries, chinese and kebabs in all parts of london since the early 70s. I doubt there is any flesh I haven't eaten, albeit unknowingly.
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>> >> with flies etc all around.
>> Ostriches can't fly.
>>
So how did they get here?
Swim?
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AC. Don't tell her about the farm just off the M6 near Coventry. It produces venison!
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>> It produces venison!
What are their prices like? Are they deer?
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>> but still refuses to eat meat that might have been 'factory farmed'
>>
>>
So horse meat would be the safest - I don't think anyone has suggested that there are secret horse meat factories? Just the odd horse that has wandered, free range as it were, into the food chain.
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Hay diddle diddle, the chefs on the fiddle, a cow morphs into a horse.
The veggie Dog laughed to see such fun, as a donkey became the mane course.
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Can human DNA be far behind?
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Horrible, but fiction. Upton Sinclair's novel "The Jungle" is an expose of the Chicago meat packing industry and features worker falling into rendering tanks. Although this is also a work of fiction, he claimed he was only reporting what he saw. I'm glad I don't eat meat.
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It's a shame the film based on that book was con-veniently lost: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle
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Upton Sinclair's family where wealthy.He knew both side's of the coin.
He said.It is diificult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon
his not understanding it.
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You're quite knowledgeable Dutchie, for a Nederlander ;)
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Shergar found! - madf
