Continuing discussion.
***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 9 *****
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 15 Dec 12 at 00:15
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'As it 'appens' . Like that :)
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Great picture in this morning's Metro (couldn't spot it on the website) - Janice Long presenting the last TOTP facing camera, with Travis on side sticking his tongue in her ear, and Savile on the right staring at her creepily. Might have looked quite funny at the time...
EDIT: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/former-bbc-dj-dave-lee-1438965
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 16 Nov 12 at 10:13
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You can see how insidious this whole thing has become. Passing someone this morning collecting for Children in Need, my instant reaction was suspicion.
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I had one knock at the door last night, when I politely pointed at the "No cold Callers" sign, she replied "I didn`t think that applied to me because I`m nice and warm"! - there`s always a "loop-hole" to be found!
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I think you'll find this covers most scenarios: images2.moneysavingexpert.com/attachment/nocoldcallersv1.pdf
It didn't stop the peripatetic tarmac crew, "we can't read".
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DLT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/dave-lee-travis-arrest-by-savile-police-is-not-to-do-with-kids-8323585.html
"I'm going to make one thing extremely clear to you - the Savile probe is nothing to do with things I've been talking to the police about.
"I was accused quote of squeezing the boobs of a couple of women."
He added: "I am and always have been completely abhorred by anything to do with children and anything to do with child molestation and anything like that.
"I don't really want to be in a headline where people look and see Savile's name and see my name and think 'Oh God, is he at it as well?'
"Not true, all right? You have a categorical denial about children. That is absolutely set in concrete, I promise you."
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The thing that worries me, is that we appear to be suffering 'Guilty by media'.
Many of the accused MAY be guilty - equally they may not.
That same fact doesn't matter to the media, and indeed the non-guilty accused will now suffer 'no smoke without fire' for the rest of their lives.
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Is it too early to say Bill Tarmey fingered me, or should I wait a bit?
I could do with the money.
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>> The thing that worries me, is that we appear to be suffering 'Guilty by media'.
>> Many of the accused MAY be guilty - equally they may not.
>>
>> That same fact doesn't matter to the media, and indeed the non-guilty accused will now
>> suffer 'no smoke without fire' for the rest of their lives.
>>
Plus:
Paedophilia = sexual interest in pre pubescent children
Hebephilia = an interest in 11 - 14 year olds
Ephebophilia = 15 - 19 year olds
The Press are not exactly differentiating any of this, are they?...and there is a difference.
Plus, some 13 year old look like 19 year olds when they are all dolled up for the night club.
There needs to be a balance. Dirty old gits deserve all they get...but...only if they are guilty.
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>> Plus, some 13 year old look like 19 year olds when they are all dolled up for the night club.
They might in recent years but I wager they didn't in the 60s and 70s.
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>> They might in recent years but I wager they didn't in the 60s and 70s.
Your wager would be costly. Clearly you were not knocking about in the 60's or 70s.
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>> They might in recent years but I wager they didn't in the 60s and 70s.
Oh yes they did. And behaviour was at least as bad, just typically not as obvious.
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No I was not knocking about in the 60s and 70s.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 16 Nov 12 at 23:48
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So what's the youngest girl Savile is said to have molested?
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13, *I think* from reading somewhere.
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FWIW DM says 8: tinyurl.com/d3xn4x2 (story also in Mirror/Sun)
DT says 9: tinyurl.com/bvx8jdr
Last edited by: Focusless on Sat 17 Nov 12 at 08:10
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That is shocking.
However, in reading those links the focus does seem to be on their "claims" rather than the original need for justice that they talked about.
Seemingly it started out as ""I want the world to know what sort of man he was" and now it seems to be solicitors acting on behalf of nn clients with their claims against the estate, the BBC, etc. etc.
And a 52 year old brickie who fears he could be Savile's love child? Oh dear God. He doesn't want anyone to know about it, neither does his mother. So how come its out in the open then?
There may well be some wounded, upset, desrving and affected people in this lot. Sadly the money-grabbers, those seeking their 15 minutes, and the terminally hard of living are devaluing the overall position.
It would have been better if it had come out when Savile was alive. Amongst many other things it would have raised the burden of proof and we'd have been more likely to get to the truth.
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>>
>> There may well be some wounded, upset, desrving and affected people in this lot. Sadly
>> the money-grabbers, those seeking their 15 minutes, and the terminally hard of living are devaluing the overall position.
>>
I got a frown for my Bill Tarmey post further up, but I was making exactly the same point. When it comes to celebrity and money there is a sizeable minority who will do almost anything to get either.
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>>I got a frown for my Bill Tarmey post further up
Not from me, I thought it was spot on, and perhaps sadly prophetic.
Assuming that there are genuine cases in the mix who want to be heard, appreciated and understood, and wanted the truth about Savile to be known, I feel very sorry for them. I would imagine watching the vultures at work when you're not one of them but are involved is very upsetting - insult to injury, I should think.
I get frownies all the time. I'm not sure what they're for really. I think they get used so that someone can safely, securely and anonymously throw rocks they don't quite know how to throw publicly.
Using the Facebook approach of removing anonymity and showing who does or does not like would change the behaviour significantly I think.
(I put a tick to balance the frownie on your note).
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 17 Nov 12 at 13:15
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Comment from "Old Holborn"
tinyurl.com/bxxxclh
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>> Comment from "Old Holborn"
>>
I saw that post Roger, and commented some disagreement with his post, this what is fast becoming farcical witchunt isn't helping anyone, least of all genuine victims of this most heinous of crimes.
Not for the first time comments that don't fit with his agenda seem to have slipped past moderation and disappeared.
Anna Raccoon has added another chapter to her story for those interested.
www.annaraccoon.com/annas-personal-stuff/past-lives-and-present-misgivings-part-eight/
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 22 Nov 12 at 09:36
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Yes, GB - I don't always agree with Old Holburn's comments or ideas, but he provides another, fiercely Libertarian, anti-Statist, view.
I always read Anna Raccoon's posts with interest: she may be a bit eccentric (like most of us on some things), but writes with a good heart, I think.
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Until Bill Wyman is arrested, I have lost interest.
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>> That is absolutely set
>> in concrete, "
>>
Priceless - you can't make this stuff up.
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maybe the real perpetrators are pre-empting by arranging staged allagations so they can never be given a fair trial? easy enough to set up tube-ter or twitface
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Anna Raccoon still posting, latest instalment.
www.annaraccoon.com/annas-personal-stuff/trial-by-posthumous-innuendo/
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 22 Nov 12 at 21:31
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Did anyone else see the ITV Savile follow-up on Wednesday night? Nothing sensational that was new, but a lot of quotes from Savile's long-term PA, recruited I think from TOTP or some other piece of horrendous TV . Seemed a pretty shrewd character herself, claimed she had never caught a hint of 'anything like that' (Savile's distasteful noncing), a bit hard to believe.
As with previous TV programmes and the long piece in the London Review of books, the ITV thing somehow missed the point about Savile, imagining him to have been popular from the word go and much loved by the public. That's rubbish. He was imposed on the public and boosted with all the mawkish 'charity work' and quacking simulation of man-of-the-people status. The public was simply swindled by high-ups in the media and the establishment, government ministers included, who wouldn't have dreamed of wasting time on his vulgar rubbish themselves, but thought it was good enough for the, er, plebs - people who watched popular TV -, valued his high profile 'help' with any campaign they were interested in and raked in the profit from his dreary shows. Win-win-win eh?
These carphounds, lots of them, are still pretending to be innocent and shocked. They should be lined up and shot for moral corruption and cultural sabotage.
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An 80 yr old arrested.
A quick net search shows that a lot of australian papers are interested in the story as well.
Can you tell what it is yet?
(No jokes about two little boys)
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Everything is alleged at the moment and there has been no official confirmation as to the identity of the person arrested. Be careful, many people who posted comments about a certain Tory peer are now dreading the postman's visit every morning.
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Robin, hence my cryptic-type post.
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If you want to want to make serious allegations against someone have the balls to name them or alternatively keep quiet. Accusation by innuendo is pathetic.
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>> If you want to want to make serious allegations against someone have the balls to
>> name them or alternatively keep quiet. Accusation by innuendo is pathetic.
>>
I think that's a bit harsh as Ian was referring to a story which has been publicly aired, but one thing that came out of the recent case is that innuendo can be construed as libel if it clearly identifies an individual.
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Googling produces results matching Ian's hint but it's twitter and other non-reliable rumour mills. Nothing on a reputable news site still less one in the UK.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 1 Dec 12 at 15:10
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I know I've led a sheltered life and grateful for it, but I can't believe more than 20% of the accusations emerging have any real basis. Perhaps a larger proportion relate to something distasteful rather than clearly criminal, with a lot just being made up or wholly inaccurate. How to know which 20% to believe, I have no idea.
What bothers me is that people whose names are mentioned effectively have to prove themselves innocent, e.g. Lord McAlpine - I can well see why he's angry.
I don't believe in ghosts, flying saucers or deities, but a lot of people do so maybe it's not surprising that so many lap up these reports.
I'm not about to believe every report, or in fact any unadmitted or unproven allegation, from the Savile enquiry any more than I credit the supernatural.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 1 Dec 12 at 15:25
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>> I know I've led a sheltered life and grateful for it, but I can't believe
>> more than 20% of the accusations emerging have any real basis.
Agreed. I'd be very surprised if more than a handful end up in court.
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Not cryptic enough, I fear.
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beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/11/rolf-harris-questioned-in-connection-to-savile-case-2505056.html
"If the tweet by Mr Thomas is accurate, it is unclear why Harris has been questioned, however Sky News have reported that it is on suspicion of sexual offences after officers searched an address in Berkshire on Saturday.
It is possible that Harris was interviewed as a witness to a criminal act, to help police with their enquiry – he was released without charge."
A report by The BBC ( www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20544939 ) does not name Harris, but states:
"A man in his 80s has been released after being interviewed by detectives investigating allegations which arose following revelations about TV presenter Jimmy Savile.
The man, from Berkshire, attended a London police station by appointment and was interviewed under caution.
Officers from the Metropolitan Police’s Operation Yewtree searched an address in Berkshire on Saturday.
The police said it was part of the inquiry not directly related to Savile.
The man arrived at 12:00 GMT, said the Met, and has now “left police premises”. He has not been charged."
------------------------------------------------
Going on the above information, he's innocent until proven guilty.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 1 Dec 12 at 16:14
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"Do you know who it is yet ?"
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Ex-Coronation Street actor Andrew Lancel faces child sex charges
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20564419
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Awful headlines, I hope he is innocent.
Headlines state "42 year old arrested for sex offence" , then it goes onto to state he was arrested on grounds of having sex with a minor, of 15, When he was a novice actor, so potentially 17, 18 or 19 , that means probably 50% of those who put an opinion on here, might also expect a knock on the door very soon for similar liaisons.....
It's very different to a 42 year old with a 15 year old, as their strap line suggests
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BREAKING NEWS:BBC understands veteran TV and radio broadcaster Stuart Hall has been arrested over allegations of rape and indecent assault
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Good grief.
Are there any people left in TV who aren't at it, were at it, or stand accused of it?
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"Are there any people left in TV who aren't at it, were at it, or stand accused of it?"
83 year old Andy Pandy is being investigated after a complaint from Looby Loo. Teddy denies any involvement.
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In the rolling succession of pointing fingers and suddenly recalled outrages, only one person I've actually spoken to has been named. Most people won't have heard of him and it was clear he hadn't done anything especially rank. Not noncing as such. No, I won't say who he is. It isn't in the public interest.
Further down the line, Google Stuart Hall. There's a good one and a rubbish one. Roger and others here please note.
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>> In the rolling succession of pointing fingers and suddenly recalled outrages, only one person I've
>> actually spoken to has been named. Most people won't have heard of him and it
>> was clear he hadn't done anything especially rank. Not noncing as such. No, I won't
>> say who he is. It isn't in the public interest.
>>
>> Further down the line, Google Stuart Hall. There's a good one and a rubbish one.
>> Roger and others here please note.
>>
?????? (your last paragraph)
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>> >> Further down the line, Google Stuart Hall. There's a good one and a rubbish one.
>>
>> ??????
From my Google search results:
Stuart Hall (presenter)
Stuart Hall (cultural theorist)
maybe?
Last edited by: Focusless on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 19:55
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>> >> >> Further down the line, Google Stuart Hall. There's a good one and a
>> rubbish one.
>> >>
>> >> ??????
>>
>> From my Google search results:
>>
>> Stuart Hall (presenter)
>> Stuart Hall (cultural theorist)
>>
>> maybe?
So - how in the world could one be confused for the other?
Unless, of course, there was more sub-text to the remark than was on the surface?
Surely not!
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Dunno - sorry Roger, should have left it to AC to explain himself.
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>> Ho, ho!
The explanation is that I remembered Roger the Rastaman once saying he was a racist, and hoped he would notice that the distinguished academic and all-round nice guy Stuart Hall is Jamaican.
However, that post now appears pretty barmy to me. I can't have been actually drunk so early in the evening but something seems to have caused a disequilibrium.
It could be that spending time in this virtual world is driving me mad.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 6 Dec 12 at 13:49
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Florence (of Magic Roundabout fame) has made allegations that Zebedee was always trying to get her into bed!
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Already been charged www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20618520
Appears a very swift case
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Sounds like a good address - Stuart Hall - is that where the nobs hang out?
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Surely it's time for a Statute of Limitations on offences of this nature? Unless there is any forensic evidence of an offence going back over a quarter of a century how the hell can you get a safe conviction when it's just word against word?
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In what way does it differ if it's 30 minutes or 30 years ago if it's just word v word?
CPS isn't going to push for prosecution unless someone incriminates themself/admits guilt, or there is some other evidence available.
Appears the 3 complainants were 9 to 16yrs old at the time.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 5 Dec 12 at 20:17
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>> In what way does it differ if it's 30 minutes or 30 years ago if
>> it's just word v word?
>>
>> CPS isn't going to push for prosecution unless someone incriminates themself/admits guilt, or there is
>> some other evidence available.
>>
>> Appears the 3 complainants were 9 to 16yrs old at the time.
I suspect last Saturday's appearance will be Hall's last outing on radio. BBC have said they won't offer him any more slots until this business is over. I suspect by then, at 83, he'll have lost the will to perform again.
Pity. I liked his Shakesperain allusions in football commentary. He's also pretty much the last broadcaster from my childhood still going. We had Look North from Manchester until the Leeds newsroom and Yorkshire transmission from Emley Moor started in 1968.
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>> Pity.
Good riddance. Was always digging out my club and its fans. An utter bell end, mostly. Shakespearean, my backside. Pretentious flanneler who thought far more highly of himself and his ability than he should have. The only other radio sports presenter I'd like to see sacked as much as Hall is Alan Green, the plastic Scouser.
We put up with those two tools whilst Barry Davies sits at home waiting for the next Olympic hockey tournament. Bah.
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>> Pity. I liked his Shakesperain allusions in football commentary.
For the most part he spouted a load of long and unusual words together, none of which made any sense when taken together, even less so anything to do with describing football.
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Pundits say Stuart Hall is looking at two and a half years if found guilty.
Five if the CPS play their joker.
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>> Five if the CPS play their joker.
Ho ho.
When I saw there was a new post in this thread, I thought "Oh no, not Patrick Moore as well...".
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Hopefully the only bodies he fumbled were celestial ones.
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>> When I saw there was a new post in this thread, I thought "Oh no,
>> not Patrick Moore as well...".
I heard the news of Patrick Moore's passing while driving back from the DIY warehouse this aft. On arrival at home I told Mrs B (who'd met him at a teacher's conference a few years ago); our immediate mutual reaction was how long before.......
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CPS decision. Will have passed the Evidential Test, Threshold Test and Public Interest Test.
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And the greasy pole and rolling log test?
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>> Florence (of Magic Roundabout fame) has made allegations that Zebedee was always trying to get
>> her into bed!
She was quite willing.
'Time for bed said Zebedee'
'Your place or mine' said Florence.
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Then I imagine it's due in the spring.
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>> >> Florence (of Magic Roundabout fame) has made allegations that Zebedee was always trying to
>> get
>> >> her into bed!
>>
>> She was quite willing.
>>
>> 'Time for bed said Zebedee'
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>> 'Your place or mine' said Florence.
>>
She may have said that at the time, but she now says the comment was said in jest.
Is was said by an unnamed source, that some mornings it was noticed that Florence had a spring on in her step....
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>>>83 year old Andy Pandy is being investigated after a complaint from Looby Loo. Teddy denies any involvement.
I was always concerned about Mary, Mungo and Midge!
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>>I was always concerned about Mary, Mungo and Midge!<<
And we all know what little weed and the flower 'pot' men got up to in the potting shed :}
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And we all know what little weed and the flower 'pot' men got up to in the potting shed :}
Was it Bill or was it Ben?
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"Jack and Jill went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water ............."
A likely story!
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>> "Jack and Jill went up the hill
>> To fetch a pail of water ............."
>>
>> A likely story!
Warning - its rude
www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pz_Y4UIGw
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Jack and Jill went up the hill
To look at daisies and cock linnets
Jill came down with a mighty frown
She'd only been two minutes.
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Max Clifford arrested this morning
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20627765
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Dear God, I hope they're right.
Arresting that bloke and being wrong could go very badly indeed for years to come.
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Max Clifford - so far we have heard nothing other than his arrest. Very quiet!
If it had been a 3rd party undoubtedly Max would have been on the one o'clock news
supporting his client!
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This business is becoming either a tragedy or a joke, it's hard to know which.
Who next? I'm reminded of that advert for dentures, saying how good they were now you would never spot the wearers : He's a sex offender, he's a sex offender, he's another ...
Or was it wigs, or hearing aids?
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They seem to be targeting everyone who's had $ex with someone else.
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The old saying goes "there is no smoke without fire" and therefore there are bound to be some allegations that are true, however, there must also be some that are not. There are real victims and some vindictive individuals out to make a fast buck where nothing happened.
How does someone defend themselves against an allegation made from decades ago for which there is no evidence, just a complaint?
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Next two likely to be Bill the Dustman and Terry who drives a bulldozer, or didn't the landfill site offer the same prospects?
Is this fiasco now entering the surreal.
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'We know no spectacle more ridiculous than the British public in one of its periodic fits of morality'
(Lord Macaulay)
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Before you know it Mr Blobby and Noel Edmunds will be arrested! And Keith Chegwin, John Craven,..... Johnny Morris probably too if he was alive.
As Z says, no smoke without fire but how can you defend against false allegations going back decades. It might not be false of course - and for that matter if true, how can you prosecute either.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 6 Dec 12 at 18:18
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I refer my learned friends to the statement I made on the 4th Oct this year -
"'b) to check that nobody else still alive was also involved, or indeed still engaged in abusing minors.'
They are going to open a whole can of worms then."
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=8395&m=269846
Should have bought a lottery ticket that week :(
Last edited by: Fullchat on Thu 6 Dec 12 at 19:00
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It's becoming quite McCarthy-ish or Stalinist now. The thought-police are discovering so many cases that before long no-one will be safe. Once the show trials really get going perfectly innocent people will be confessing to crimes they couldn't possibly have committed, pathetically eager to confess to minor crimes in the vain hope of being spared.
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but this will rather open the floodgates I suspect
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20632125
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Funny how they're all "innocent" though....
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Mr Blobby was arrested in October for vagrancy and exposing himself. tinyurl.com/dyxh8ca
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 8 Dec 12 at 07:13
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Someone else nabbed - any guesses? In his 60s from London.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20663293
Last edited by: Focusless on Mon 10 Dec 12 at 09:12
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Operation Yewtree is beginning to look more like a department than a project. No reason why it won't continue indefinitely.
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Not a good idea to make guesses about such things.
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Certainly not names.
We could have a category competition though. A 1970s rock star perhaps.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20686219
The strand of a police operation investigating abuse carried out by Jimmy Savile has been completed, with the number of victims now believed to be well over 500, the BBC understands.
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>> Certainly not names.
>>
>> We could have a category competition though. A 1970s rock star perhaps.
I heard rumors it was a soap star.
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Wonder if he'll get Life boy....(you have to be a certain age)
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When you get to that certain age you try to pretend you never heard of it.
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>> Wonder if he'll get Life boy....(you have to be a certain age)
>>
With all the Jimmy Savile stuff, i wouldn't be admitting to knowing about 'Lifeboys'
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Is this a cryptic message? Lifebuoy soap or something?
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>> Wonder if he'll get Life boy....(you have to be a certain age)
Not sure you know how close you are to revealing the answer.....
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>> I heard rumors it was a soap star.
>>
Have an ex soap star of that age lives by me - often bump into him in Waitrose. Fin it a little odd having grown up seeing him on TV
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Savile News. As it 'appens - Volume 8 - Fullchat
