http://www.car4play.com/forum Car4play forum en-gb Fri, 14 Aug 2026 10:17:08 +0100 Copyright: Car4play webmaster@car4play.com (Technical) 5 car4play691174 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 10:17:08 +0100 >> >> The EV tariff used to be (and may change back to, who knows?) a lower >> differential - which is the other unknown, where will prices go in the future? I >> read on a forum about a lot of people who use their man maths to >> help decide on panels and/or battery dependent on existing rates, then (as happened recently) export >> rates take a bit of a dive and the calculations go out of the window. >> There are far too many uncertainties to make a reliable forecast of financial benefits. Cheap night rates may be eroded and then disappear as many instal domestic batteries charging at cheap night rates for use during the day, and charging EVs overnight will increase as EV sales increase The EV decision needs to be put in context. Fuel cost savings of, say, £400pa may represent the lease cost or depreciation on a new to three year old mid range car. Current savings may only be short term as favourable tax and subsidies are withdrawn. More critical will be - do I want to drive a piece of increasingly outdated obsolete equipment, or upgrade to that designed for contemporary conditions. I am not blind to the reality that not all, for financial reasons, will be able to make so simple a choice. But that is no different to today. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691174&v=e car4play691171 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 09:54:32 +0100 PeterS - depends on how much of your driving you can do on EV from a PHEV? Yeah no good on long journeys but if the majority of your day to day driving is within EV range then it could make a difference. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691171&v=e car4play691168 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 09:44:49 +0100 > >> How much is that per year as a saving, about £400? >> >> >> >> Cheap night rates - Octopus - cheap night rate is 8p but day rate increased >> to 35p. Night saving is 18p, daytime premium is 9p. >> >> The average UK hoiusehold uses ~2,500 kwh pa - so to break even point would >> be if EV use was 1250kwh pa = 5,000 miles assuming 4 miles per Kwh. >> >> The answer really depends on what your other household electricity consumption is, and the use >> pattern for an EV. To save £400 pa using cheap night rates, and assuming average >> household consumption would require: >> >> - Premium for daytime use = 9p x 2500 kwh = £225 >> - EV miles needed to save £625 = 625/18p kwh = 3472 kwh x 4 >> miles kwh = 13900 miles >> >> Broadly - cheap night rates are only likely to generate a material saving if (a) >> EV mileage is high, (b) other household electricity use is fairly low (c) you can >> charge other household batteries overnight, (d) time shift other household use. >> >> Completely agree - I do between 12 and 15,000 miles a year in my EV, and have actively chosen not to bother with an EV tariff anymore. Sure, the 8p / KwH sounds attractive, but it’s usually either a simple 5 or 6 hour a night window, or it’s a smart tariff that controls when the car is charged. One of the most liberating benefits of an EV, for me, is that the car is always ‘full’ when I get in it, and that means at times I’ll charge in the evening, the morning or even the afternoon. Paying a 50% premium for daytime use to benefit from a 66% saving for a limited window, generally overnight, doesn’t stack up for me. Especially as my energy provider, Scottish Power, offers a guaranteed 8 hours a week of half price energy anyway, which is around 200 miles if the slots align :) At worst I am paying 5p a mile ‘too much’, over 15,000 miles - which is £750. Though in reality it’s ‘only’ £500 after the higher cost of normal daytime usage with these tariffs, and most of that disappears if the cars charged during the day once a week. Even then it’s still less than half the price of petrol :) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691168&v=e car4play691164 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 09:22:07 +0100 Even if they can make the pay per mile model work, 3p plus the 7 or 8p a mile energy cost at standard UK electricity prices would mean doing around 70mpg on petrol to get the equivalent cost. And petrol prices seem to be rising weekly! Even at French / Italian motorway fast charging costs, which i assume are similar to Spanish, adding 3p a mile would get you to an equivalent of somewhat over 50mpg. So I don’t think I’d be choosing hybrid over EV on that basis alone! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691164&v=e car4play691163 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 09:21:42 +0100 I think you're probably right but don't forget your usage will increase in the colder months, it's all about whether you can move it to the cheaper periods. I think a regular EV tariff wouldn't really suit me much now, most of my equipment is fairly low 0 heat pump tumble drier, dishwasher has a 1 hour cycle which uses a tad over 1 kWh, all lights are LED, TV about a kWh per evening (I think), hot water tap rather than kettle etc etc. Thet stuff has mostly been replaced within the past few years cos it needed it rather than for an efficiency drive. The EV tariff used to be (and may change back to, who knows?) a lower differential - which is the other unknown, where will prices go in the future? I read on a forum about a lot of people who use their man maths to help decide on panels and/or battery dependent on existing rates, then (as happened recently) export rates take a bit of a dive and the calculations go out of the window. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691163&v=e car4play691156 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 08:27:12 +0100 >>Broadly - cheap night rates are only likely to generate a material saving if (a) EV mileage is high, (b) other household electricity use is fairly low (c) you can charge other household batteries overnight, (d) time shift other household use. For a month I have been monitoring my electricity usage by taking meter readings when I go to bed and when I get up - usually around 10.30pm and 7am. Doing this with view to when I do change to PHEV or EV to see whether an EV tariff would work. On average I am 4.7 daytime and 1.6 overnight. My overnight fluctuates but yet its only the two of us in the house so should be pretty similar but then I realised sometimes my missus sits up late watching a film, so the two table lamps timer goes off so she puts "the big light on", has obv the TV on, will probably involve another cup of tea so the kettle goes on (and she doesnt believe in just boiling one mug full of water) etc. Occasionally put dishwasher on when going to bed but I cant see how I could get an EV tariff to work for me (esp as my annual mileage is no more than 8k) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691156&v=e car4play691155 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 08:13:30 +0100 >>Next car will be EV - not because of possible fuel savings (I am a way will be found to tax them) Under current plans those EV mile swill be charged at 3p per mile, including the mileage you do in Spain. However if you can do the majority of your mileage on EV locally, then a Chinese PHEV will only be 1.5p a mile, wont be luxury road tax and you have that engine for your trip to Spain when needed http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691155&v=e car4play691151 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 00:58:46 +0100 >> There are too many variables to sensibly compare. Not least as I've just shown figures >> which vary from yours, primarily due to one different tariff (I don't do 14k miles >> a year) (and I have no battery). >> >> I think the point is probably there is a large number of people who are >> pretty standard then there are those with panels, EVs, batteries and heat pumps, all of >> which are game changers - for better or worse! >> >> I also know there are a lot of people who don't care what they spend, >> and some with no real idea of what impacts usage. I agree - it is complex, personal circumstances can be very different, some don't care about money, others are incapable of even trying to understand, some may be motivated by environmental issues with money a secondary concern etc. Personal - about 2 years ago bought an ex-demo petrol 2024 Seat Ateca. Considered EV but was concerned about long journeys - eg: to/from Costa del Sol where range and recharging facilities could add stress and extend journey times. Last January as we travelled south it was clear that recharging facilities at motorway services were no longer the barrier to progress perceveived two years earlier. Next car will be EV - not because of possible fuel savings (I am a way will be found to tax them) but simply as EV is the future of personal transport and fossil fuels old tech. A littlle like home heating where once coal reigned supreme, to be rpeplaced by gas, which in turn will give way to heat pums. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691151&v=e car4play691149 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 23:28:49 +0100 Luckily we are all different... :-) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691149&v=e car4play691138 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 20:08:58 +0100 >> Gues what - I've no idea!! Yes, that surprised me too LOL >> >> So on the car alone, very roughly say 7000 miles a year, now I've checked! >> Is v approx 2000 kWh, which they are about 10p each cheaper than std tariff >> so it's more like £200 cheaper, just on the car(assuming std tariff is about 10p >> more). >> >> Overall last year I totalled about 4800kWh at an average of 16.7p and I'm assuming >> a std tariff was 27p so year, somewhere around £400 pa overall saving - so >> a bit under 30% less. Probably harder to achieve without an EV >> So about £200 without an ev roughly. I don't think I'd rush into it. I don't think i could be bothered for that amount of savings. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691138&v=e car4play691137 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 20:07:17 +0100 No good here in the leafy Surrey burbs, too much ambient light http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691137&v=e car4play691136 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 19:49:40 +0100 The meteor shower was rather good. Should be a repeat tonight. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691136&v=e car4play691127 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 16:54:56 +0100 >> What a non-event. Gluing a CD to a stick and moving it in front of >> a light bulb would have been more interesting. I've just seen photos of the chaos at Dunstable Downs. Cars parked everywhere, at least one abandoned in the middle of the road. Total gridlock as both ends of the road were blocked. What was the point of folk heading to high ground? The sun's that big yellow thing in the sky. You can see it from almost anywhere. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691127&v=e car4play691126 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 16:12:13 +0100 >> What a non-event. Gluing a CD to a stick and moving it in front of >> a light bulb would have been more interesting. Yes A right non event, didnt even get gloomy here. Not be so dissappointed since the hype of raising the Mary Rose, and it came out looking like a giant supermarket trolley dumped in the canal. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691126&v=e car4play691125 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:46:21 +0100 There are too many variables to sensibly compare. Not least as I've just shown figures which vary from yours, primarily due to one different tariff (I don't do 14k miles a year) (and I have no battery). E.g. Octopus Go 8.5p for 5h overnight, 33.7p daytime, intelligent Octopus Go 8p 6+h overnight, 25 - 33p daytime. There are plenty of other suppliers also offering tiered rates. I think the point is probably there is a large number of people who are pretty standard then there are those with panels, EVs, batteries and heat pumps, all of which are game changers - for better or worse! I also know there are a lot of people who don't care what they spend, and some with no real idea of what impacts usage. (E.g. a friend knows a less well off woman in S Wales who spends a fortune keeping the house hot in the winter but when it gets too ht she opens a window or two... On the Beeb there were vox pop people wringing their hands over one round of energy prices rises saying it already costs me £2.5k to heat my single room flat blah blah...)) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691125&v=e car4play691124 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:04:15 +0100 >> How much is that per year as a saving, about £400? >> Cheap night rates - Octopus - cheap night rate is 8p but day rate increased to 35p. Night saving is 18p, daytime premium is 9p. The average UK hoiusehold uses ~2,500 kwh pa - so to break even point would be if EV use was 1250kwh pa = 5,000 miles assuming 4 miles per Kwh. The answer really depends on what your other household electricity consumption is, and the use pattern for an EV. To save £400 pa using cheap night rates, and assuming average household consumption would require: - Premium for daytime use = 9p x 2500 kwh = £225 - EV miles needed to save £625 = 625/18p kwh = 3472 kwh x 4 miles kwh = 13900 miles Broadly - cheap night rates are only likely to generate a material saving if (a) EV mileage is high, (b) other household electricity use is fairly low (c) you can charge other household batteries overnight, (d) time shift other household use. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691124&v=e car4play691122 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 13:45:32 +0100 Gues what - I've no idea!! Yes, that surprised me too LOL So on the car alone, very roughly say 7000 miles a year, now I've checked! Is v approx 2000 kWh, which they are about 10p each cheaper than std tariff so it's more like £200 cheaper, just on the car(assuming std tariff is about 10p more). Overall last year I totalled about 4800kWh at an average of 16.7p and I'm assuming a std tariff was 27p so year, somewhere around £400 pa overall saving - so a bit under 30% less. Probably harder to achieve without an EV http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691122&v=e car4play691121 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 13:31:20 +0100 >> I get all of the but when using 60+ kWh to charge an EV the >> difference between one of the "special" tariffs v. an ordinary tariff is '00s per year, >> all for not much effort. E.g. last year my average cost was 15.9 per kWh >> whereas I think ordinary tariffs were around 26p - 27p. Looks like my average daily >> cost was about £2.20, which includes fuel for about 5k car miles (but I also >> have a modest solar input). >> >> How much is that per year as a saving, about £400? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691121&v=e car4play691111 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:59:31 +0100 >> You can get a pair of images from binoculars aimed at a convenient white wall. >> People seem to have forgotten the very similar eclipse at 9am on 20th March 2015, only 11 years ago. I looked out the photo I took then, and the coverage looks almost as much. Watched yesterday's performance, which was covered by partial cloud for a while - didn't really need those dark glasses ! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691111&v=e car4play691108 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:45:14 +0100 Taylors is, by far, the most expensive beer in my local. Just one, of the 6 handpumps, is normally Taylors...a few months ago it increased to £5.05, last night it was £5.10. I think it was Boltmaker, named after the Keighley pub I drank in 5 nights a week whilst waiting for my train home. An ever changing range of Yorkshire only beer from limited breweries...often a barrel lasts less than 24 hours so drink it whilst you can. Normally £4.30, max £4.50 a pint with 20p CAMRA discount. Goodness knows how much a large glass of wine, 250cl is, but I suspect it’s almost £10 a glass. I’m partial to a nice Godello or Albariño to accompany a grilled goats cheese salad at Casa LL on a summer evening...that’s why I bring back my full 18 litre allowance twice a year from Espana and give half of it away to friends...at €10 or less a bottle I can afford to, although I’ve been known to spend €15 on something special...over that I cannot taste the difference. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691108&v=e car4play691105 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:25 +0100 >> Much larger financial savings to be made by never >> buying any nibbles at my local pub, beer only, never get in a round of >> drinks with females who drink wine, and make sure you are in time for the >> free roasties on certain days so no need for food later. 'Ear all, see all, say nowt, Eat all, sup all, pay nowt, An' if tha ever does owt fer nowt, allus do it fer thissen. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691105&v=e car4play691104 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:05:47 +0100 I get all of the but when using 60+ kWh to charge an EV the difference between one of the "special" tariffs v. an ordinary tariff is '00s per year, all for not much effort. E.g. last year my average cost was 15.9 per kWh whereas I think ordinary tariffs were around 26p - 27p. Looks like my average daily cost was about £2.20, which includes fuel for about 5k car miles (but I also have a modest solar input). I remember about 4-5 years back visitors from deepest darkest Kent being shocked at £10.50 for a large wine in one of our locals. No idea what it might cost there now but a few months back a pint of Timothy Taylors was £6. And a "Coke" squirted from the pipe was over £3 http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691104&v=e car4play691103 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 08:14:51 +0100 >> Not sure who is the saddest Sooty, me for knowing my daily costs or you >> for having no idea of yours :-) >> I suppose my daily cost is about £2.50 becsuse my monthly DD for gas & electric is £75. I’ve still no idea what my tariff is with Octopus, doubt it makes much difference in the grand scheme of things. Much larger financial savings to be made by never buying any nibbles at my local pub, beer only, never get in a round of drinks with females who drink wine, and make sure you are in time for the free roasties on certain days so no need for food later. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691103&v=e car4play691102 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 06:44:47 +0100 >> Not sure who is the saddest Sooty, me for knowing my daily costs or you >> for having no idea of yours :-) >> >> I expect me! >> I just get the numbers from the water, gas and electric meters and send them on at the same time. It tells how much the bill is going to be, it seems a reasonable amount each time. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691102&v=e car4play691101 Thu, 13 Aug 2026 06:40:13 +0100 I wasn't really looking forward to it, and wasn't disappointed with seeing it here in sunny Cornwall. I was looking forward to seeing it in 1999 when we lived up at Warleggan on Bodmin Moor though. Thick cloud cover all sodding day day back then :( http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691101&v=e car4play691100 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 23:50:53 +0100 Not sure who is the saddest Sooty, me for knowing my daily costs or you for having no idea of yours :-) I expect me! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691100&v=e car4play691099 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 21:39:21 +0100 What a non-event. Gluing a CD to a stick and moving it in front of a light bulb would have been more interesting. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691099&v=e car4play691097 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 19:42:18 +0100 >> It's making my leccy somewhat expensive :-) https://agilebuddy.uk/historic/agile/today >> >> Note that is the graph for today, 12/8. If you are reading this post tomorrow >> you missed it :-) >> Is that a high rate? Honestly i couldn't tell you what mine is without looking it up. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691097&v=e car4play691096 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 19:40:09 +0100 Nice bit of free advertising for octopus energy. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691096&v=e car4play691093 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 16:39:49 +0100 It's making my leccy somewhat expensive :-) https://agilebuddy.uk/historic/agile/today Note that is the graph for today, 12/8. If you are reading this post tomorrow you missed it :-) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691093&v=e car4play691092 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 16:13:27 +0100 One or two might not make it to 6pm for today's event (Which, on current form might well be preceded by the next prime minister!) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691092&v=e car4play691091 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 16:04:33 +0100 'Talking of the eclipse, its probably the last many of us on here will be alive to see' Judging by the age and health of this community, many of us won't see the next prime minister... http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691091&v=e car4play691090 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 15:03:21 +0100 I'm sure there might be one or two folk mentioning it and posting photos on social media... http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691090&v=e car4play691086 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 10:33:50 +0100 >> I'll see you tomorrow ;>) If you want a Triffid experience, just pop down to my local river bank, could be the film set. However I think "The Day the Earth Caught Fire" is probably more likely right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUFtgep9sj4 http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691086&v=e car4play691084 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 09:27:08 +0100 Or just go to the beer garden at my local...can’t say that Im overly bothered about the eclipse. Heaven knows Im miserable now ( The Smiths) :-) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691084&v=e car4play691083 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 09:16:27 +0100 I thought you just had to put a colander on your head. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691083&v=e car4play691082 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 09:13:12 +0100 There's two types of people, those who have read The Day of the Triffids and those that haven't. I'll see you tomorrow ;>) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691082&v=e car4play691071 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 15:48:38 +0100 You can get a pair of images from binoculars aimed at a convenient white wall. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691071&v=e car4play691069 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 14:45:12 +0100 They dont do drama too well in Norfuk do they. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691069&v=e car4play691068 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 14:24:46 +0100 Handy tip. You can get the same effect as the eclipse by drawing the curtains, switch on the lights and then use the dimmer switch. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691068&v=e car4play691066 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:50:36 +0100 Its being live streamed on the Royal Observatory web site. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691066&v=e car4play691065 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:36:47 +0100 Not sure that 18:30 to 20:00 is peak Solar energy yield anyway. Talking of the eclipse, its probably the last many of us on here will be alive to see, (2081 next similar (90%)) Amazon has run out of eclipse glasses. Its goiong to be lowish in the sky, so I plan to throw up the drone, and dosome time lapse. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691065&v=e car4play691060 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 23:15:34 +0100 "When the moon covers the sun, a huge chunk of Britain's solar power will be knocked out – just as millions of people are getting home and electricity demand spikes. "To help take the strain off the grid, we're asking Octopus customers to use less electricity during the eclipse, and instead, head outside to enjoy this one-off celestial spectacle. https://octopus.energy/eclipse/" In return, if you use less, you will get a free hour of power on Sunday. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=691060&v=e