http://www.car4play.com/forum Car4play forum en-gb Fri, 29 May 2026 23:11:49 +0100 Copyright: Car4play webmaster@car4play.com (Technical) 5 car4play689224 Fri, 29 May 2026 23:11:49 +0100 Whilst I was not a trader as such I had considerable insight to various solo car dealer operations with the work I did. I was also a regular at one time at BCA to inspect and bid on vehicles when I took early retirement and helped out an old friend. From my experience the minimum, sustainable margin was at least £2k. There are lots of niggley expenses such as finding unusual spare parts, fixing scratches/ dents/ split bumpers/ alloy wheels/ glass chips/ stained and torn upholstery etc. all these little, fiddly things take time and soak up money, which all adds up. Then of course there is the standard prep work to get the car serviced, valeted and out front and then the time taken to keep it smart, show people around and take test drives etc, taking care to weed out those seeking entertainment for the afternoon. There are some types of cars to avoid altogether, not least ecoboost etc engines, certain diesels, various make/ model specific issues - transfer boxes, damaged rear bumpers, electrics etc anything doggy or smokey inside and so on. Add to that there is quite typically one in ten that can go wrong or even badly wrong. From the complainer with spurious grumbles who expects a new car at secondhand prices to an engine blowing up. Many customers now are fully aware of their rights as consumers and quite rightly the trade has had to respond and improve. It can be great fun and if cars can be sourced well and a reputation built well and good. The burden of running a business, worrying about cash flow and surviving in difficult times can suck enthusiasm and profit away. Combine that with unsocial hours and it is no surprise the number of one man bands and larger such businesses is declining. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689224&v=e car4play689205 Fri, 29 May 2026 06:44:18 +0100 This trader does well presented videos. I accept that he is Marmite. But pretty honest videos - I think. I couldn't find the video that I was looking for, but there are some interesting explanations of things like Auto trader charges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcqQMm_b4c http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689205&v=e car4play689199 Thu, 28 May 2026 20:10:14 +0100 The Korando is up for £11490 in a second dealer. It has 4 full main dealer services and the balance of the 7 year warranty. Would I recommend it with the getting worse dealer shortage and the price of OEM parts. Answers on a postcard. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689199&v=e car4play689181 Thu, 28 May 2026 11:22:12 +0100 Google - the average gross margin on second hand cars is 12-15%. From the gross margin a dealer needs to cover showroom, sales force, warranty, vehicle prep, financing costs, other overheads etc. Motorpoint gross margin is 8%, net profit less than 1% operating on the basis of high volume low margin. Main dealers I suspect operate on larger gross margins - possibly 15-20% based on brand and service back up. For older cars price spread will be wide reflecting mileage, service history, condition etc. Cars 2-5 years old, particularly if in warranty, are a commodity. Internet price comparison nationwide means individual choice is a compromise of price, distance, dealer reputation etc. Practical implications - for a car being retailed at £10k - allow £500 for negotiation, £1500 gross margin, VAT at 20% on gross margin, adjust for any obvious repairs or major maintenance. Leaves a trade in value of £7000-7500. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689181&v=e car4play689178 Thu, 28 May 2026 10:00:56 +0100 Lots of dealers mislead their customers with less than6 months Warranty - Motorpoint 3 months, Arnold Clark 60 days! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689178&v=e car4play689176 Thu, 28 May 2026 09:24:38 +0100 Sold my Fabia Monte Carlo estate through Motorway for £6,600 to a VAG specialist outfit in St Ives. I think it went on for closer to £9k but they serviced it and replaced the cambelt. There was also wear damage to the bolster on the driver's seat which they seemed to have done an invisible repair. I struggled even to get past first base of a fabric match to get that seen to myself. No doubt the purchaser got something knocked off to close the deal and Peter S gives a good account of the business cost reality for the dealer. Dealers on very low margins, sub £1k, are shifting volume. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689176&v=e car4play689171 Wed, 27 May 2026 23:16:49 +0100 This video was linked here a year or so back and gave an interesting and (I think) fairly honest look at how car sales costs etc work for the garages, financially. It's about Teslas but I imagine applies across the board. It's an interesting watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GUJ1Fj_Ud8 http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689171&v=e car4play689166 Wed, 27 May 2026 21:47:23 +0100 >> I'm not fussed about the profit margin. I'm happy with the deal. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689166&v=e car4play689165 Wed, 27 May 2026 21:27:24 +0100 >> >> >> >> In spite of the reliability ssangyong are not loved in the trade. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> That's interesting, any idea why? >> I think it's because they aren't a well known or popular brand. Difficult to shift. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689165&v=e car4play689163 Wed, 27 May 2026 21:12:34 +0100 >> >> In spite of the reliability ssangyong are not loved in the trade. >> >> >> That's interesting, any idea why? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689163&v=e car4play689162 Wed, 27 May 2026 21:12:18 +0100 Don’t forget to factor in the 6 month minimum warranty the dealer must provide and the 30 day money back guarantee if the car turns out to be a lemon . http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689162&v=e car4play689160 Wed, 27 May 2026 20:40:01 +0100 It’s certainly not worth overthinking it once it’s sold, I agree. But it sounds like there two slices being taken if it was traded on, unless I’ve got the wrong end of the stick. So assuming whoever traded it on took £500 out of it before it went up for £11,500 whoever is now selling it paid £8,500, and will probably end up discounting it by £500. It might need £500 of servicing/warranty/smart repairs or whatever, so that’s £2,000 of gross profit for them, out of which VAT on the margin has to be paid based on the sales price (I think?) ignoring the costs, which means VAT on £2.5k. So that’s £400odd as well. Maybe £1,6000 left, before the inevitable finance costs for holding stock and tax on the profit. I don’t suppose dealers pay bottom dollar for financing, but let’s say £8.5k @ 10%, which is roughly £15 a week for easy maths. You say they are slow to sell, so perhaps it’s in stock for 8 weeks. Profit now ~ £1,500 taxed at 25% (assuming its a reasonable sized dealer and making reasonable money), so just under £400 in tax. £1,100 left to cover the costs of the shiny showroom and shiny suits :) Yes, I know the last two bits are the wrong way round, but I’ve made it complicated enough without trying to guesstimate the overheads of a car dealer ;) Not bad business by any stretch, but also not quite as lucrative as it might seem I suppose - and there’s the risk that if it stays in stock too long it’ll depreciate further… http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689160&v=e car4play689158 Wed, 27 May 2026 20:27:41 +0100 Don't overthink the profit margins. I'm not fussed about the profit margin. I'm happy with the deal. Cost to change came out of current account... Just curious about dealer margins... http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689158&v=e car4play689157 Wed, 27 May 2026 20:21:20 +0100 Dealers need to make their margins somehow. You normally either get a good trade in value or discount on the new motor. If both sides of the deal seem good you probably negotiated well. If both sides bad you have been stung! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689157&v=e car4play689156 Wed, 27 May 2026 20:20:57 +0100 Yes did shop around.. WBAC was about £600 less. I'd looked for a while and all the offers were pretty similar. In spite of the reliability ssangyong are not loved in the trade. There was a very expensive year 5 service coming up and there are fewer and fewer dealers now. Plus it's gone and swmbo likes driving the s cross, It makes it easier to get rid of the venga. So will save on insurance and ved etc for the venga. Still haven't worked out how to shut the s cross down so I can lock it properly or reset the MPG display. I'll get levois to give me a tutorial.. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689156&v=e car4play689155 Wed, 27 May 2026 20:10:38 +0100 ORB. You said the car was due an expensive service next time, perhaps there's a bit of fat in the price to sweeten the deal should the next owner be clued up. Also, you were presumably happy with the cost to change, so don't overthink the profit margins. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689155&v=e car4play689154 Wed, 27 May 2026 20:01:56 +0100 I guess they would probably take 11k for it? 3 grand profit seems a little excessive to me considering all they've probably done is valet it, I know for a fact ( dealer principle is a friend) when I traded my Vitara in for £15750 he sold it on for £800 more within 3 days, think he put a thousand on it? Not blowing my own trumpet but it was unmarked and immaculate. Did you shop around for a valuation? I know a ssangyong will always loose money but 8k for a one owner, fsh, 4/5 year old suv seems low to me??? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689154&v=e car4play689153 Wed, 27 May 2026 18:50:45 +0100 I see that my old trade in has gone on sale for £11500 after being shifted on from the dealer i traded it into for £8000. Is that a "normal" markup nowadays? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689153&v=e