http://www.car4play.com/forum Car4play forum en-gb Tue, 12 May 2026 20:26:30 +0100 Copyright: Car4play webmaster@car4play.com (Technical) 5 car4play688828 Tue, 12 May 2026 20:26:30 +0100 I have a different view to many when it comes to main dealer servicing, perhaps because of my dealers or perhaps because I just don’t know enough about cars! But modern-ish cars don’t seem to need much servicing, and I’ve yet to see any ill effects from that. On the basis they don’t need much servicing, the savings from not using a main dealer don’t seem that significant to me. Some posters might recall my predilection for dabbling in the tattier end of the so called premium manufacturers ranges in parallel to more modern / normal cars, and my experience of well/average/poorly maintained cars as they age is that they all just seem to keep going, unless something that is not a service item and was never going to form part of any preventative maintenance fails. We’ve had a 160k mile A2 that had barely seen a garage after 80k as far as I could make out that was just fine, until it was crashed into a hospital car park. A 170k mile BMW 325i (straight 6 petrol) was reliable, even though its service history was flakey, but suffered from typical ‘80s BMW corrosion. An old A8, whose mileage I can’t recall, had been very comprehensively maintained. But was in no better condition than a 25 year old 160k mile A4 with average service history that I picked up last year. An old Audi 80 convertible had very good service history, but no preventative maintenance would have stopped the heater matrix failing and effectively writing off the car. Take BMW or MINI, who’s condition based servicing works in the same way I think. For my usage that meant a service every 18k miles or 2 years - the service pricing is fixed and, to my thinking, pretty reasonable. They do a thorough check (looking for other work…) and advise accordingly, but there’s never any pressure to do the work. I guess to someone without an understanding of the basics you might feel obliged to have everything suggested done, but I’ve never been pushed on any of it. Mercedes servicing is more frequent - always annual, and more expensive. But every time you have it serviced at a dealer they extend the European breakdown cover by another 12 months, no matter how old the car. They offer a discount on parts and labour for cars over 4 years old, and they are never sniffy about old cars. Indeed, when I took my Facebook purchased 17 year old SLK there for a service / check up (because the specialist quote was only £60 cheaper, and they’re in a less convenient location and don’t offer free breakdown cover) they went over the whole car, commented on a few things but said the only thing that needed doing in the next few months, in their opinion, was to replace some perishing flexi hoses on the front brakes. The quote for the work was a reasonable £250 or so, but the actual job only cost £180 because of reasons I’ve forgotten. I’ve just booked it in for an MOT - which it turns out is free because the car is more than 10 years old. I’m sure that’s on the basis that they’ll find more work, but if something needs doing it needs doing, and their prices seem okay. And as rusty subframes are a Mercedes point of failure, but one that they cover under warranty under Mobilo Life for up to 30 years, having the MOT done at a dealer makes sense to me :) Audi are less interested in old cars than they used to be. They were happy to service our A2s, and indeed the even older 80 based convertible, but I’ve currently also got a 25 year, 160,000 mile old Audi A4 1.8 T sport in a rather fetching orange and when I popped in to pick up an exterior mirror glass (a previous owner had replaced the drivers on with the glass from a pre facelift A4, which was a slightly different shape) they said that all parts for the A4 were end of life and they couldn’t get one. EBay to the rescue!! It’s been serviced, at best, annually over its life, with every two years being more like the norm over the last decade. Everything still works though, including the climate control, although the LCD display (red) used for the OBC had more missing pixels than working ones. But, preventative maintenance wouldn’t have prevented that, and £160 paid to an outfit in Portsmouth got that swapped out. It passed an MOT last month with one advisory for a minor oil leak. There are no clonks, it pulls well, but I had it serviced by a local garage, because the Audi dealer wasn’t interested. But I’m not sure that it’s really much cheaper using the local garage, although they’re a knowledgable bunch and take a sensible approach to work worth doing on a 25 year old car, much as Mercedes do with the old SLK. Price wise an ‘A’ service on a old SLK was £180odd at the dealer, including extending the breakdown cover. It’s an like service with a bunch of checks and a fancy video. But an ‘oil’ service on the A4 last year was £135, plus £70odd to replace a track rod end. Not a lot in it really - and of course oil changes could be done at home, at a small saving, but then no one would look over the rest of the car. When it comes to EV servicing, my old Tesla Model 3 had no specific service schedule, but still needed attention 3 times in 2 years - it went through 2 upper control arms, which I think are a known weakness (or design feature…), a set of lower arm bushes and a dodgy exterior door handle. All under warranty though, which surprised me - I expected the suspension stuff to be ‘consumable’ like brake pads or wipers. I’ve had the BMW 2 and a half years and that’s had one scheduled service at 2 years old (when it had done 35,000 miles, but it’s not a mileage dependent service, just age) to replace the brake fluid and cabin filter and check things. Again, BMW servicing seems fairly reasonable to me - it cost £232 including the dealer picking it up, cleaning it and returning it. And the suspension is just fine :) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688828&v=e car4play688819 Tue, 12 May 2026 15:37:49 +0100 >> ...our three older cars (1980 TR7; 2005 Audi A8; 2019 Peugeot 2008 - average age 36). http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688819&v=e car4play688817 Tue, 12 May 2026 12:45:00 +0100 >> >> Older cars - MoT will capture all safety critical items. ......... many owners only >> spend money on cars when something fails > or so I do a 'wheels-off' inspection on a warm summer day to ensure brake >> and fuel pipes are protected and have no corrosion, and to address any other corrosion >> at an early stage. This is something that an expensive garage 'service' will not do. A good, reliable independent garage would do the necessary, essential checks. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688817&v=e car4play688816 Tue, 12 May 2026 12:11:41 +0100 >> Older cars - MoT will capture all safety critical items. ......... many owners only spend money on cars when something fails http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688816&v=e car4play688809 Mon, 11 May 2026 23:15:15 +0100 From AI ⭐ ICE engine: ~200–300 moving parts ⭐ EV motor: ~20–30 moving parts And when you include the whole drivetrain: ⭐ ICE powertrain: 2,000–3,000 parts ⭐ EV powertrain: 200–300 parts I'd like to think they'll have designed the suspension etc to cope with a heavier vehicle BT :-) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688809&v=e car4play688806 Mon, 11 May 2026 20:25:34 +0100 Newish car - most safety critical items - suspension, steering, braking, tyres etc - are "inspect" and require nothing done. The only longevity critical items are typically engine oil + a couple of filters. Older cars - MoT will capture all safety critical items. There may be a better argument for the lubricate and inspect elements of a service schedule - although many owners only spend money on cars when something fails. Electronic systems on new cars should be far more capable and informative. Limp home mode is unacceptable when (a) potential faults can be identified with temperature, vibration, efficiency monitoring, and (b) fault descriptions provided (not fault codes and take it to a s******). So for an EV the traditional approach to servicing and MoT should be replaced by (a) annual MoT to pick up any safety issues, and (b) far better monitoring and warning systems. Current "inspect" items on a service schedule exist to make the list longer and justify largely unnecessary charges. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688806&v=e car4play688797 Mon, 11 May 2026 16:53:14 +0100 >> Errr battery pack Very heavy battery pack that places extra load on suspension, steering, tyres and road surface. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688797&v=e car4play688796 Mon, 11 May 2026 16:38:35 +0100 >> Other than standard mechanical stuff that's in any car there is very little to service >> in an EV (hence very little to wear out or go wrong). Errr battery pack, traction motors, cooling for electronics, etc etc. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688796&v=e car4play688794 Mon, 11 May 2026 14:55:46 +0100 >> Other than standard mechanical stuff that's in any car there is very little to service in an EV (hence very little to wear out or go wrong). http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688794&v=e car4play688790 Mon, 11 May 2026 13:35:01 +0100 Other than standard mechanical stuff that's in any car there is very little to service in an EV (hence very little to wear out or go wrong). I suspect much of the important stuff is done by plugging into the computer and maybe tweaking settings. Hence my first main dealer service for my old EV was only around £45. That probably wouldn't even pay the cost of an oil change or a set of plugs these days for an ICE. Or a cambelt or many of the other myriad of parts which can go wrong in an ICE engine. And if you've not already had a peek you might be disappointed with what you find in in the "engine bay" :-). http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688790&v=e car4play688785 Mon, 11 May 2026 11:21:38 +0100 Daughter's BYD goes into Arnold tomorrow for its first service (through an AC service plan). I will be following her in to collect her and take her back. Would love to be able to do something in the engine bay to check that it has actually been serviced but wouldn't know where to start! I guess like many drivers now, its on a PCP, doubt she will keep it at the end and as long as it is dealer serviced and has the warranty then should give her hassle free motoring! Whether the service is done or not! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688785&v=e car4play688771 Sun, 10 May 2026 17:52:16 +0100 Apart from a dealer service on our Peugeot 2008 when it was one year old, our cars haven't had a garage 'service' for decades. I change the oil and brake pads myself when necessary. The MoT does most if not all of the checks done in the 'service'. Also, I think over-diligent brake 'servicing' might be counterproductive. The piston starts life right at the start of its cylinder with big fat pads and disc. I think the inside of the cylinder will last longer if it is bathed in brake fluid, but until the pads and disc wear it risks corrosion from moist salt-laden air getting past the protective rubber boot and so might be more prone to seizing the piston. Discs have around 4mm wear in them and the pads around 12mm. I think pads and discs should be allowed to wear right down to the minimum before they are changed to ensure the piston travels as far as possible along its cylinder. But I have often heard of people advised to change them because.... 'they won't last till the next service, mate'. Obviously wear varies from one driver to another but my discs have always lasted around 100,000 miles and I allow the pads to wear down to the MoT minimum, usually after around 50,000 miles. (at 79,000 miles my 20yr old Audi A8 has only recently had new pads on its original discs). I hammer and grind off rust and 'lipping' from the disc with a carborundum wheel. I have never had to have a new caliper, even on a car which did over 240,000 miles. How long do your calipers last? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688771&v=e car4play688763 Sun, 10 May 2026 12:10:17 +0100 >> . You really ought to >> >> be able to trust a main dealer though. >> >> >> >> I don't see them being more or less trustworthy than any other business. >> This is a post I made to another forum earlier this year: "My 23 year-old BMW 320d SE Touring passed its mot two weeks ago. Built in Dec 2002, it has done 137,500 miles. It has been in the family all its life. My sister had it for the first 10 years, I have had it since Aug 2012, it has a full service history (book fully stamped) and have kept all receipts for work done on it since I acquired it. It was taken into the local BMW dealership for an urgent airbag replacement. They carried out a 'health check' and found nearly £1100 worth of work they deemed urgent. I declined. When it went in for a MOT and service at the local BMW garage, I told them of the issues the dealership found. Of the items highlighted by the dealership, and the local independent BMW garage's opinion: * Water ingress on fog lights: Dealership wanted £165.48 Not water ingress, but condensation. This is common on older cars. * Suspension rear damper dust cover: Dealership wanted £374.63 The shock absorbers are fine. The covers do not affect their operation. One is loose, but will be removed when both rear shock absorbers need replacing. * Under tray cover damage: Dealership wanted £544.87 There was no damage, but just loose. It was re-attached (with a couple of screws) and is very secure now." I did rebuke them in an email response and the clerk who dealt with me partially agreed with my comments, but wouldn't go as far as saying they were 'trying it on' to fleece money out of me. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688763&v=e car4play688761 Sun, 10 May 2026 11:43:13 +0100 Many years ago my father used to leave clues as to whether the job had been done properly. A loose valve cap that should have been tightened had the tyre pressures been checked. A bit of felt tip marker on the air filter. A bit of thread held in place by the HT lead - not there if the spark plugs had been re gapped or changed etc. In truth he trusted no tradesmen - electricians, plumbers, builders etc. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688761&v=e car4play688759 Sun, 10 May 2026 09:57:11 +0100 " You really ought to be able to trust a main dealer though." You really ought to. However my dealings with several Kia dealers over a number of years is that they are next to car park enforcement companies in the 'robbery' stakes. Other brands also apply I'm sure. The engaging receptionists and free coffees are a smokescreen for the deceptions going on in the workshops. Add to that a wash and valet from a a minimum wage employee and the deception is complete. My belief is they work under the Must, Should and Could principal. They must change the oil because most people can access a dipstick and check the colour of the oil. After that an owner would have to engage in some determination to discover malpractice like under seat fuel filters not changed. By the time a vehicle suffers the consequences of service neglect its probably well out of warranty and a few owners into its history. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688759&v=e car4play688753 Sun, 10 May 2026 09:03:53 +0100 . You really ought to >> be able to trust a main dealer though. >> I don't see them being more or less trustworthy than any other business. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688753&v=e car4play688751 Sun, 10 May 2026 08:59:05 +0100 The annoying thing is that many are not sufficiently technically savvy to challenge and don't bother shopping around for things, just pay whatever is asked for. You really ought to be able to trust a main dealer though. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688751&v=e car4play688747 Sun, 10 May 2026 05:40:49 +0100 20 years ago a light came on on the dashboard of my then Civic (2001). Took it to the Honda dealer to get the light issue resolved. Could not find a fault, disconnected the battery and the light stayed off. It was coming up for a service (Honda 1st 3 years then Indie 3 years) They quoted for the service £XXX BUT then produced a list of items needing attention. The car was coming up for 6 years & 90K. £2,500 for the add-ons. My Indie looked at the list and whittled it down to AC re-charge and Rheostat fan PLUS the service. I complained to Honda about the local dealer trying to fleece me. They arranged for an Edinburgh dealer to look over the car - they came back with rheostat, AC Re-charge & only 3mm left on 2 rear tyres I cannot remember all the points on the £2,500 list but a new AC compressor was one item, suspension +shocks...... When I went back with the Edinburgh dealer report the General Manager of the local Honda dealer "That's their opinion and we have ours" The car was sold 6+ months later 93K - T/I £2,700. The local Honda dealer did not get the new car business http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688747&v=e car4play688746 Sat, 09 May 2026 23:11:34 +0100 I'd have thought a 9-year-old car would be going to a reputable indy for servicing, not a dealership ? Must be quite a bit cheaper ? And does it really need flushing ? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688746&v=e car4play688745 Sat, 09 May 2026 22:28:19 +0100 Daughter contacted me to ask if a quote of six hundred-odd quid was reasonable for a service on a nine-year-old Kia Niro hybrid. Sent me a bit of the quote and the first two items were: 1. engine oil flush 2. fuel system flush Couldn't see the details of the rest of the quote. Told her to run away and get another price, perhaps from a KIA dealer - two hundred-odd quote. I've never had main dealer servicing, apart from the first few years of the Yaris. I thought them charging £150 for what was basically an oil and filter change was extortionate! To put things into perspective, I've done an oil and filter change on the Yaris today for £60 and that includes Toyota's recommended 0-20W oil (refined from unicorn tears, I presume), unlike the bulk 5W-30 the main dealers used (could've saved £20 if I'd used 5W-30)! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688745&v=e