http://www.car4play.com/forum Car4play forum en-gb Fri, 22 May 2026 12:48:50 +0100 Copyright: Car4play webmaster@car4play.com (Technical) 5 car4play689068 Fri, 22 May 2026 12:48:50 +0100 >> >> I can't say I've looked at the ONS, is that about 'normal'? >> I think one would say "nuanced", but it does make interesting reading. https://tinyurl.com/YouthMigration http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689068&v=e car4play689063 Fri, 22 May 2026 09:19:32 +0100 You're making up your own explanations here Terry. Maybe the 18-34 year olds includes a lot of students. I have no idea. Is it true that the number of very wealthy is falling? Or are they just getting better at hiding it. I don't resent their wealth, I resent people who do not pay their share and the mugs tugging their forelocks. I don't understand people on PAYE and pensions defending tax dodging super-rich who probably pay lower average rates of tax then they do, and then voting for the political party financed by those same wealth hoarders to preserve the status quo. The immigration figures are out now. The fall in net migration in 2025 does seem to be mainly due to lower arrivals rather than emigration if I read the first chart correctly. And whilst small boat arrivals went up in 2025 the 2026 trend seems to be down. It's a mess regardless and the wreckers and racists who have made this a big issue just get in the way of sensible policy. We are apparently short of 100,000 care workers. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvgzjpd1jjgt http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689063&v=e car4play689060 Fri, 22 May 2026 08:59:49 +0100 I think I read yesterday somewhere that the large majority of immigrants aren't the ones who excite the general public so much, i.e. on boats etc, but are student visas. Whether they are all legit students is, I suppose, another question... Re youngsters leaving the country... 1) it's not all of them and 2) while I am not vastly knowledgeable on it, I do know a number of European countries either have or are introducing quite a high level of earnings requirement to enable someone to reside there. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689060&v=e car4play689058 Fri, 22 May 2026 08:17:35 +0100 >> >> >> ..... but still the young heading for the door isn't great. >> >> >> >> ....Always have, always will (latest ONS statistics indicate the situation has been pretty stable over >> the years, though I suspect Brexit might have changed their ultimate destination). >> I can't say I've looked at the ONS, is that about 'normal'? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689058&v=e car4play689056 Thu, 21 May 2026 23:55:23 +0100 >> If people choose to emigrate for tax reasons, so be it. They can beggar off >> and good riddance, we'll keep the decent ones. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. UK tax income down increasing public sector borrowing. Jobs lost in providing goods and services to the wealthy. UK loses folk with money to invest in new businesses. Many of those leaving will be highly educated, ambitious, energetic, etc. You will keep those imbued with with an entitlement culture, lacking energy, lacking ambition, ill-educated etc etc. Completely complacent and bonkers (IMHO) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689056&v=e car4play689055 Thu, 21 May 2026 23:41:47 +0100 >> I don't know who the outbound migrants are. >> >> >> I believe 2/3 are 18-34 year olds, that's British nationals. >> >> So they are not the wealthy fleeing the country to avoid tax. The 18-34 year olds leaving the country are those with energy, ambition, training, qualifications etc. The very folk the country needs to build a sustainable prosperous future. They leave behind many whose their principal "quality" is a sense of entitlement, not responsibility and self reliance. The number of UK based very wealthy is also falling - possibly attracted by better weather elsewhere. More likely concerned with removal of non-dom benefits, possible wealth taxes, inheritance tax on worldwide assets, increased taxes and burdensome business regulation. The UK will be poorer for their loss - not just their capacity to invest in UK based businesses but all the employment they created - eveerything from gardening to fine dining. However much some may resent their wealth, the UK is far better off with them. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689055&v=e car4play689054 Thu, 21 May 2026 22:08:24 +0100 >> ..... but still the young heading for the door isn't great. >> ....Always have, always will (latest ONS statistics indicate the situation has been pretty stable over the years, though I suspect Brexit might have changed their ultimate destination). http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689054&v=e car4play689053 Thu, 21 May 2026 21:45:43 +0100 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I don't know who the outbound migrants are. >> >> >> >> I believe 2/3 are 18-34 year olds, that's British nationals. >> >> So they are not the wealthy fleeing the country to avoid tax. >> I wouldn't have thought so no. Still not great if the young workers think it's not worth staying here, I guess the reasons are varied, but still the young heading for the door isn't great. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689053&v=e car4play689052 Thu, 21 May 2026 20:34:01 +0100 >> >> >> >> >> I don't know who the outbound migrants are. >> I believe 2/3 are 18-34 year olds, that's British nationals. So they are not the wealthy fleeing the country to avoid tax. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689052&v=e car4play689046 Thu, 21 May 2026 18:09:22 +0100 >> >> I don't know who the outbound migrants are. I know several people in my age >> group who have moved to Spain, and in one case Thailand IIRC, in retirement which >> is an alternative explanation. They aren't the super rich, they are boomers with a bit >> of wool on their backs. It makes little sense for properly rich people to flee >> for tax purposes when they can afford to live where they want and I'm not >> convinced that they do that by the 100's of 000's. >> >> If people choose to emigrate for tax reasons, so be it. They can beggar off >> and good riddance, we'll keep the decent ones. >> I believe 2/3 are 18-34 year olds, that's British nationals. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689046&v=e car4play689041 Thu, 21 May 2026 17:46:05 +0100 >> It certainly looks that way. >> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/21/wes-streeting-tax-income-capital-gains-wealth-labour-leadership I'm seeing Streeting proposing treating Capital Gains similarly to income. That closes the door on (eg) Sunak taking capital, taxed at a much lower level than income from work, for living on. Different to charging an annual levy on capital held. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689041&v=e car4play689037 Thu, 21 May 2026 17:04:50 +0100 It certainly looks that way. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/21/wes-streeting-tax-income-capital-gains-wealth-labour-leadership http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689037&v=e car4play689035 Thu, 21 May 2026 16:01:50 +0100 >> As reported by the FT: >> https://www.ft.com/content/964d71f2-50c6-4c0b-b662-4fce0384f26b?syn-25a6b1a6=1 >> It comes from the IFS. Use your favourite site for avoiding the paywall. That piece is about an annual wealth tax. Is that what Streeting is proposing? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689035&v=e car4play689034 Thu, 21 May 2026 15:56:25 +0100 As reported by the FT: https://www.ft.com/content/964d71f2-50c6-4c0b-b662-4fce0384f26b?syn-25a6b1a6=1 It comes from the IFS. Use your favourite site for avoiding the paywall. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689034&v=e car4play689033 Thu, 21 May 2026 15:37:24 +0100 >> Studies show that if a wealth tax were to be introduced, as at least Streeting >> is proposing, this would lead to a net decrease in tax revenues as the people >> affected would leave the country. Can you point us to the location of these studies and the organisation that funded them? http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689033&v=e car4play689031 Thu, 21 May 2026 15:28:47 +0100 Studies show that if a wealth tax were to be introduced, as at least Streeting is proposing, this would lead to a net decrease in tax revenues as the people affected would leave the country. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689031&v=e car4play689027 Thu, 21 May 2026 14:22:51 +0100 >> Most migration is legal. One comes over illegally and then family reunion brings wife and >> kids legally who then rely on welfare. Isn't Ms Mahmood moving the goalposts for family reunion where 'illegals' arriving on small boats are concerned? And for time needed in UK before those on work visas can apply for settlement. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689027&v=e car4play689026 Thu, 21 May 2026 14:20:06 +0100 >>so to say net inward migration is down (but still large) isn't the win Manatee thinks it is. No it's just a fact. I don't know who the outbound migrants are. I know several people in my age group who have moved to Spain, and in one case Thailand IIRC, in retirement which is an alternative explanation. They aren't the super rich, they are boomers with a bit of wool on their backs. It makes little sense for properly rich people to flee for tax purposes when they can afford to live where they want and I'm not convinced that they do that by the 100's of 000's. If people choose to emigrate for tax reasons, so be it. They can beggar off and good riddance, we'll keep the decent ones. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689026&v=e car4play689021 Thu, 21 May 2026 10:08:43 +0100 >> >> Since mid 2024 40% of the asylum hotels have closed >> >> Somewhat selective - the use of HMOs, other rented accomodation, large scale dispersal centres have >> increased. At December 2025 107,000 (July 2024 - 101,000) had accomodation support. Probably saved some >> money by using cheaper accomodation. While the move from hotels to HMOs is, to some extent, a deck chairs/Titanic move the hotels were deeply unpopular and very newsworthy. There is a growing move from people living with HMOs on their street to get people moved on. The number of 'illegals' arriving by boat is well down on last year. Initially that was said to be down the weather but we're now seeing 'red' days where crossings in number might be expected without expections being met. That's said to be down to work done with EU countries including Belgium and Germany to catch people further upstream and to disrupt the supply of boats and outboards. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689021&v=e car4play689020 Thu, 21 May 2026 10:02:37 +0100 >> and net inward migration is down. Most migration is legal. One comes over illegally and then family reunion brings wife and kids legally who then rely on welfare. Also there has been a large exodus of highly-taxed individuals who are being replaced by the above, so to say net inward migration is down (but still large) isn't the win Manatee thinks it is. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689020&v=e car4play689016 Wed, 20 May 2026 18:52:39 +0100 >> A massive opportunity was missed in that long period of almost zero interest rates when >> government could have borrowed cheaply to renationalise utilities, build high speed internet and fix the >> infrastructure. Instead we had austerity and 14 lost years. >> Evidence of the woeful inability of government to manage large scale projects - HS2 costs just increased again - over 3 times original budget, delayed a decade ++, just 40% of the original track length now planned. initiated by Labour, perpetuated by Tories, Labour incapable of now stopping the rot. Some privatised utilities (particularly water) have failed due to poor regulation - a government responsibility. Investments made over the last 20+ years should now be generating a surplus for reinvestment - the reality is that any savings that may have flowed are being spent on something else. Borrowing money even at low interest rates still has to be repaid. A sort of political "man maths"!! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689016&v=e car4play689015 Wed, 20 May 2026 18:36:01 +0100 >> I don't know the numbers but he has a lot of support and no real >> difficulty getting legislation through. Welfare reforms, farm ingeritance tax, business rates for pubs, winter fuel allowance, digital ID, two child benefit cap. Either as a result of back bench pressure, or wider feedback. >> Nobody has seriously suggested a confidence vote as far as I know probably because he >> would win it. A confidence vote by who - his party or parliament. The party just need a challenger with enough signed up support. The parliamentary majority makes a confidence vote implausible. >> He's a good PM objectively. If not why not? To decsribe him as very average would, IMHO, be generous. >> Since mid 2024 40% of the asylum hotels have closed Somewhat selective - the use of HMOs, other rented accomodation, large scale dispersal centres have increased. At December 2025 107,000 (July 2024 - 101,000) had accomodation support. Probably saved some money by using cheaper accomodation. >> and net inward migration is down. Total or illegal?? The initiatives - smash the gangs, one in one out, disrupting boat and motor supplies, paying French plod - seem a triumph of noise over effective action. >> I won't celebrate the highest growth in the G7 because nobody is breaking any pots >> and the difference could be rounding but Farage is fairly quiet on that one too. One quarter in isolation is very selective - may be the harbinger of better things to come or an anomaly. Cumulative GDP growth since July 2024 - the UK slips to 5th place. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689015&v=e car4play689011 Wed, 20 May 2026 11:51:59 +0100 >>I'm pretty sure governments can't keep growing the economy by spending more money without some sort of crisis happening! Spending vs. investment? Government spending has long been a popular way of trying to get out of a slump. FDR's New Deal, post war reconstruction in general, the Chinese reaction to the financial crisis, and more recently post-pandemic money printing. Of course all drugs have side effects. A massive opportunity was missed in that long period of almost zero interest rates when government could have borrowed cheaply to renationalise utilities, build high speed internet and fix the infrastructure. Instead we had austerity and 14 lost years. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689011&v=e car4play689010 Wed, 20 May 2026 11:06:22 +0100 >> I don't know the numbers but he has a lot of support and no real >> difficulty getting legislation through. >> >> Nobody has seriously suggested a confidence vote as far as I know probably because he >> would win it. >> >> He's a good PM objectively. If not why not? >> I listed them above. I'm sure he's well meaning but looks completely out of depth. Like the dog that caught the car. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689010&v=e car4play689009 Wed, 20 May 2026 10:55:27 +0100 It would be fairer to say that he’s had no problem getting his MPs on board with legislation that involves spending money, but there was a fairly public climbdown on benefits reform ;) A good PM needs a vision that they can clearly communicated, and the ability to drive change. I would say the jury is very much out on whether he can do either. He is clearly a good administrator though. On the growth front, Q1 GDP growth was 0.6%, but as public spending grew 1.4% year on year for the same period and public spending is around 40% of GDP that doesn’t seem like real growth, or sustainable growth. I’m pretty sure governments can’t keep growing the economy by spending more money without some sort of crisis happening! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689009&v=e car4play689008 Wed, 20 May 2026 09:36:20 +0100 I don't know the numbers but he has a lot of support and no real difficulty getting legislation through. Nobody has seriously suggested a confidence vote as far as I know probably because he would win it. He's a good PM objectively. If not why not? Since mid 2024 40% of the asylum hotels have closed and net inward migration is down. That was supposedly the priority issue for the Conservatives who faffed with unrealistic plans to ship people off to Africa, all pure performative carp. There's a reason Farage isn't ranting about that. I won't celebrate the highest growth in the G7 because nobody is breaking any pots and the difference could be rounding but Farage is fairly quiet on that one too. 14 years it took to get us to this state. What irritates me is the Labour MPs jumping on the bandwagon. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689008&v=e car4play689007 Wed, 20 May 2026 07:38:09 +0100 In theory that's right, however once the herd moves it moves. His majority isn't much use as most of the backbenchers don't appear to like him. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689007&v=e car4play689005 Tue, 19 May 2026 23:09:49 +0100 He can ignore his polling, he still has a thumping majority. The Conservatives got no credit for changing Prime Ministers like underwear and neither would Labour. The second a new one takes over over, Badenough, Farage and the Daily Hitler will.demand a GE because they "have no mandate". http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689005&v=e car4play689004 Tue, 19 May 2026 21:52:19 +0100 The PM has got himself into a real mess here, he's on hold for the next few weeks until his possible replacements get themselves lined up in accordance with the parties rules. Looks like he is treading water until his replacement is in place, he can't stay long term his polling is awful one of the worst since polling began. It doesn't help he doesn't really do politics, he seems to have no political base, no sense of what the party wants, no real ideas for the country, isn't really a communicator. I'm sure he's reasonably bright but on one hand it's worrying he's got this far. Not the only one of course. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689004&v=e car4play689003 Tue, 19 May 2026 21:44:45 +0100 Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua :) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689003&v=e car4play689001 Tue, 19 May 2026 21:30:39 +0100 There are about 125,000 members of the Conservative party. Rather fewer than Labour. Of course they aren't representative of the country. They are presumably mostly Conservative voters, and the same for Labour mutatis mutandis (that's for Bromptonaut). http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689001&v=e car4play689000 Tue, 19 May 2026 21:01:48 +0100 Labour party members are not representative of the electorate and what they want. Neither is the Tory party members, they just want access to the conservative club and the golf club. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=689000&v=e car4play688999 Tue, 19 May 2026 21:00:11 +0100 >> Hopefully the 16+ want hope over fear Nah, just sex, drugs and Rock 'n Roll rap http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688999&v=e car4play688998 Tue, 19 May 2026 18:31:47 +0100 Labour party membership is estimated at ~330k. Assuming the YouGov poll was a representative sample of members your comments are fair. Only party members and MPs get to chose who leads the party. They represent only ~4% of the 9.7m who voted Labour, and ~1% of the 28.8m who voted for all parties in 2024. At the next election in 2029 the views of the wider electorate will determine the outcome, not an inward looking Labour Party survey. But as Harold Wilson observed "a week is a long time in politics". In 3 years the opinion of the party and country may be in harmony, and willingly vote Labour a further term to finish the good work now started. Seems unlikely to me ........... http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688998&v=e car4play688997 Tue, 19 May 2026 17:22:51 +0100 >> >> Most Labour members think SKS is doing a good job. >> >> Seems implausible - Labour vote share has fallen from 35% at the election to ~18% >> today. Hardly an overwhelming endorsement. It's true, from a survey of members (not voters). >> >> >>But a majority would vote for Burnham if he could stand. As above. >> >> >> Streeting is not popular and SKS would beat him in a 2 horse race. As above >> >> Say what you like about Labour and SKS, I think they are the least >> bad >> >> options for the time being. Starmer is right to keep going. >> >> With a u-turn, gross misjudgement, or party policy rebellion at about one a month the >> only question how long to the next. Chances of SKS leading Labour to election victory >> in 2029 close to zero. Better Labour were decently lead than prop up the inadequate. That's the thing, that's the Daily Mail version. The media and SM assault on Starmer started even before Parliament was back in session after the election. There is literally no pleasing the extremely hostile right wing media, it's the story they are pushing and they will find 'evidence' every week. We have to get better at countering it. I wouldn't disagree that the comms have been weak and the factionalism is utterly stupid, as ever, but less than 2 years into fixing a destructive 14 years things are stable and the trend, although weak, is mainly upwards. This is fact, not claptrap for the uneducated. He has kept us out of a disastrous war, we have relative stability and he is reasonably well regarded abroad. I wouldn't disagree either that we are still in the fertiliser as a nation but 14 years, remember? I tend to agree that it's a challenge to see SKS leading the party at the election but stranger things have happened although I expect a leadership change nearer the election. YouGov poll of 706 Labour members: Key takeaways Most Labour members think Wes Streeting was wrong to resign as health secretary (57%) and would rather Starmer beat Streeting in a leadership challenge by 65% to 15% Nearly half of members (47%) rank Andy Burnham as their first preference for Labour leadership, compared to 31% for Starmer. 59% rank Burnham above Starmer in their preferences for leader While 66% of party members believe Starmer has done a good job as prime minister, just 28% think Labour are likely to win in 2029 if he stays leader, and 61% want him to stand down before the next general election 80% of Labour members say the party has done a good job in government https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54797-what-do-labour-members-think-of-the-party-leadership-may-2026 http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688997&v=e car4play688996 Tue, 19 May 2026 17:07:10 +0100 >> Seems implausible - Labour vote share has fallen from 35% at the election to ~18% >> today. Hardly an overwhelming endorsement. Labour members, not the electorate as a whole. Streeting's not popular with paid up members as he's (a) to Blairite and (b) was too close to Mandy. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688996&v=e car4play688995 Tue, 19 May 2026 16:34:28 +0100 >> Most Labour members think SKS is doing a good job. Seems implausible - Labour vote share has fallen from 35% at the election to ~18% today. Hardly an overwhelming endorsement. >>But a majority would vote for Burnham if he could stand. I think them misguided - but that is how democracy works >> Streeting is not popular and SKS would beat him in a 2 horse race. But it may not be a 2 horse race - Rayner, Milliband, Mahmood etc. SKS is hardly popular within the party - there are over 80 MPs who have already made their views clear. >> I'm hoping Burnham will lose Makerfield because changing horses now would just make Labour look as in serious as the Tories. On that we agree!! >> Say what you like about Labour and SKS, I think they are the least bad >> options for the time being. Starmer is right to keep going. With a u-turn, gross misjudgement, or party policy rebellion at about one a month the only question how long to the next. Chances of SKS leading Labour to election victory in 2029 close to zero. Better Labour were decently lead than prop up the inadequate. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688995&v=e car4play688990 Tue, 19 May 2026 15:08:48 +0100 Most Labour members think SKS is doing a good job. But a majority would vote for Burnham if he could stand. Streeting is not popular and SKS would beat him in a 2 horse race. I'm hoping Burnham will lose Makerfield because changing horses now would just make Labour look as in serious as the Tories. Say what you like about Labour and SKS, I think they are the least bad options for the time being. Starmer is right to keep going. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688990&v=e car4play688985 Tue, 19 May 2026 11:34:44 +0100 >> Good result in Wales with the Senedd election. Plaid Cymru won by a better margin >> than predicted. Hopefully the 16+ want hope over fear Daughter, who is down the road from you in Connah's Quay. was pleased with that too. Bit og head scratching over how to vote against Refuk - tactically if necessary. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688985&v=e car4play688984 Tue, 19 May 2026 11:33:04 +0100 >> What then happens to a leadership contest. Does Streeting force a contest. What about other >> possible candidates. Will Starmer carry on (until the next major embarrassment?) If Burnham doesn't win then, assuming he's got the 81 backers needed, Streeting will have to challenge I think. Though, depending on who else's hat is in the ring, he might well lose. Possibly even to KS!! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688984&v=e car4play688982 Tue, 19 May 2026 11:11:27 +0100 Good result in Wales with the Senedd election. Plaid Cymru won by a better margin than predicted. Hopefully the 16+ want hope over fear http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688982&v=e car4play688962 Mon, 18 May 2026 11:18:17 +0100 >> But reform are also anti woke / anti gender stuff - I can get on >> board with that I can't. It's just another example of 'othering'. Another group of people they can blame. >>and I think there is a lot of society that simply wants >> to have established definitions of what a man and a woman is. That's clearly not easy because nobody has managed to please everybody yet. I don't feel the compulsion to have much opinion on this. I would just like everybody to have the chance of a decent life and to have a reasonable carry on while they are about it. I don't think I know anybody who has been harmed as a result of somebody being trans-sexual. Queer people of all kinds have always been around. As evidenced by the bible, the only useful contribution it has made on this topic. It's normal. Not typical of most people, but normal. We got rid of legal persecution and a good thing too. Do we want that creeping back? Reform politicians are presumably doing their best at the moment to look like decent electable people yet most of them still come over as arrogant or unpleasant. If they ever get control we will see much more plainly how thoroughly vile they really are. That's all that's happened in the US - they got control. Wake up people. We need more woke not less. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688962&v=e car4play688945 Sun, 17 May 2026 16:52:46 +0100 >> completely over the top outfits, naff music , fantastic lighting >> and effects, crazy voting , what’s not to like? >> All of the above. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688945&v=e car4play688944 Sun, 17 May 2026 14:34:24 +0100 >> ---->> I'd rather count the cornflakes in a family sized box of Kellogs. >> >> I'm with ^this geezer. >> And the great thing about living in a free country is that you are both free to do that if you prefer. Although, I wouldn’t necessarily mention it in a social setting ;) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688944&v=e car4play688939 Sun, 17 May 2026 13:33:52 +0100 It’s a bit of fun, completely over the top outfits, naff music , fantastic lighting and effects, crazy voting , what’s not to like? Roll on next year in Bulgaria http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688939&v=e car4play688934 Sun, 17 May 2026 12:53:39 +0100 ---->> I'd rather count the cornflakes in a family sized box of Kellogs. I'm with ^this geezer. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688934&v=e car4play688931 Sun, 17 May 2026 11:34:14 +0100 >> >> >> I don't usually watch it but I did tonight. It is a load of froth >> and nonsense but really quite harmless and clearly gives millions pleasure. I almost enjoyed parts!! >> :-) >> I'd rather count the cornflakes in a family sized box of Kellogs. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688931&v=e car4play688925 Sun, 17 May 2026 09:27:26 +0100 One has to wonder what exactly you’re watching, and how you manage to keep stumbling across it, if it’s consuming so much of your viewing ;) http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688925&v=e car4play688924 Sun, 17 May 2026 09:26:30 +0100 Lots of Tactical Voting in the By-Election My enemy's enemy is my Friend! http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688924&v=e car4play688923 Sun, 17 May 2026 09:21:18 +0100 I get the impression it's purely for the LGBT brigade and wonder if it's time for the BBC to introduce a channel specifically for them and drag queens. That way I wouldn't be presented with them monopolising a disproportionate amount of my viewing. http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?m=688923&v=e